Joe Morgan bags NPB

- He failed to mention any of the successful NPB players who moved across to MLB.

This is yet another attack by Morgan who last year attacked Ichiro Suzuki's hit record. Morgan is a hypocrite who sadly, even as a HOF'er, is a very poor analyst. Morgan said last year, "While Ichiro Suzuki's hit record is impressive, we should never push accomplishments from the past aside - because the season has more games today." [Link]

This is the type of comment that makes Morgan a hypocrite. Morgan went on to say that there should be two records (a 154 game and 162 game record). Though, remember that Morgan didn't call for this when McGwire and Bonds broke Roger Maris' 61 home run mark. Also remember that Morgan and ESPN analyst Rob Neyer started attacks on Ichiro last year, as soon he broke Sisler's hit record. I also, for the most part, don't take anything Morgan says during games or his analysis with anything more than a grain of salt.

- ([...] a 154 game and 162 game record). Though, remember that Morgan didn't call for this when McGwire and Bonds broke Roger Maris' 61 home run mark.

Actually, when Maris hit 61 HRs in 1961, MLB was already playing a 162 game season, thus the controversy over whether Maris' record should have an asterisk next to it or not since Babe Ruth hit 60 HRs in a 154 game season.

Joe Morgan should have his head examined, though. I love it when the so-called "experts" degrade Japanese baseball and Japanese baseball players. I still remember Rob Dibble saying in Ichiro's rookie season that if Ichiro won the batting title, he would run around naked in Times Square and get a tatoo on his behind with Ichiro's name on it. Now Dibble's fat butt has "Ichiro (in katakana) #51" on it. Serves him right for acting like a know-it-all.

- Now Dibble's fat butt has "Ichiro (in katakana) #51" on it. Serves him right for acting like a know-it-all.

At least he followed through on the bet (or the rear end of the bet anyway).

AA is a stretch - probably more like AAA with legit MLB talent scattered throughout. Without allowing these guys to join the majors while they're in their prime, though, it's impossible to know.

Joe Morgan is, and always has been, enamored with himself. He has no clue as to the competitive nature of NPB and never will. I am so glad that he can't come over and exert his "expertise" on the Japanese game, for it is pure.

Joe Morgan, regrettably, suffers from foot in mouth disease. He's a Bozo. Ignore him.

NPB is pure? Pure what? Sorry, that's another laughable, ethnocentric and tired cliche.

I've only 2 words to say to Joe Morgan on this topic.

They are: Gabe Kapler

Joe Morgan (5'7") also said that Japanese players are too small to play in MLB. Here are the heights of some successful Nihon-jin, all taller than Joe:
Shigetoshi Hasegawa (5'11"), Tadahito Iguchi (5'10"), Hideo Matsui (6'2"), Masanori Murakami (6'0"), Hideo Nomo (6'2"), Akinori Otsuka (6'0"), Kazuhiro Sasaki (6'4"), Ichiro Suzuki (5'9"), Shingo Takatsu (6'0").

- NPB is pure? Pure what? Sorry, that's another laughable, ethnocentric and tired cliche.

So are some MLB analysts and MLB fans. Although the majority aren't, a sizeable size is ethnocentric to baseball outside the United States.

- They are: Gabe Kapler

Knowing Morgan, who described perfectly above as suffering from foot and mouth disease, he would try to find some way (even though unjustified) to say Kapler wasn't given a chance or was a major league player, and that his deactivation wasn't justifed because he was a so-called major leaguer.

Second, I don't understand why ESPN keeps this hypocrite who makes me cringe every time I hear his "so called knowledge of baseball" on ESPN Sunday Night Baseball and ESPN. Also, as mentioned above, ingore Morgan's so called analysis. I never have listened to Morgan's analysis, because it's just nothing more than hypocritical and flawed.

- So are some MLB analysts and MLB fans. Although the majority aren't, a sizeable size is ethnocentric to baseball outside the United States.

To be fair, while some are no doubt ethnocentric, most are just ignorant, in an innocent way, because they know little about NPB. There are plenty of ethnocentic people to go around, I agree. Joe Morgan, on the other hand, is just plain ignorant and is in a position to know better.

Please send Bobby V. back to the U.S. so he can take over Joe Morgan's job!

Gabe Kapler just stinks. He should get off the juice, out of the weight room, and into the batting cage. He is a musclebound clod. Send the bum back home to the U.S. Now, someone can call me a racist because the guy is an American and he stinks. Can't a player just stink, no matter his national origin, then?

- [...] most are just ignorant, in an innocent way, because they know little about NPB.

Yes this is true, because of the lack of seeing live games of the NPB. Many don't even know anything about it and listen to so-called experts like Morgan and believe it.

This is what bugs me, that some people are ingorant of baseball leagues outside the United States. The so-called Yankees lost to the Hanshin Tigers last year. Hanshin didn't just beat the Yankees, they beat them 11-7. Remember, Hanshin also tied with the Devil Rays 7-7. So, I just get sick of hearing this excuse of how Japanese baseball is of "AA quality." It's flawed, ethnocentric (at times), and wrong.

If only some NPB games were broadcast in the U.S., allowing for more accessibly, knowledgable U.S. baseball fans would soon appreciate the high caliber of NPB. Until then, most of us will remain in ignorant bliss.

Don't worry, most fans recognize Morgan for the boob he is. The quote on the height of Japanese players is almost hilarious, if not for it being insulting and inaccurate.

Uhh, but Hanshin tying the Devil Rays is no sign of honor. I did enjoy Tampa Bay and the lowly Royals spank the Yanks this season though. ;o)

- Uhh, but Hanshin tying the Devil Rays is no sign of honor.

Sure, but it means that no MLB clubs have ever defeated the Hanshin Tigers. Not bad for a team from a so-called AA league.

Just to get a bit of "numerical" prospective on it, Clay Davenport over at baseballprospectus.com last spring gave the Japanese Leagues as a whole a .92 league difficulty rating. For comparisons sake, that is roughly halfway between AAA and MLB. He lumped the 2 leagues together, and he admitted that it may not be the best estimate, but he seemed quite sure that NPB is well above AA ball, and probably well above AAA as well.

For whatever it's worth.

- Clay Davenport over at baseballprospectus.com last spring gave the Japanese Leagues as a whole a .92 league difficulty rating. For comparisons sake, that is roughly halfway between AAA and MLB.

That's about what I figured. Not AAAA, though, because there are clearly plenty of guys who could hold a spot in a MLB starting lineup, but much thinner with regards to overall depth.

- Uhh, but Hanshin tying the Devil Rays is no sign of honor.

Though with the so-called domination of MLB teams, it's a big statement. If the quality of Japanese Baseball was so low, they wouldn't have beat the Yankees and tied Tampa Bay. Remember that Japan went 1-0-1 in the 2 games against MLB teams. This proves that the quality of baseball in Japan is way higher than AA quality, and closer to even with MLB.

Here are the Baseball Prospectus articles talked about in this topic: Link 1, Link 2.

-- They are: Gabe Kapler

- Knowing Morgan, who described perfectly above as suffering from foot and mouth disease, he would try to find some way (even though unjustified) to say Kapler wasn't given a chance or was a major league player, and that his deactivation wasn't justifed because he was a so-called major leaguer.

Or he could counter with any number of two word replies: Tuffy Rhodes, Alex Cabrera, Matt Franco, etc. My point isn't that Morgan is right about NPB, but rather that using Kapler as an example when comparing Japanese baseball to North American baseball is probably less justifiable than Morgan dismissing the NPB as AA. Kapler always has been, currently is, and forever will be garbage.

- My point isn't that Morgan is right about NPB, but rather that using Kapler as an example when comparing Japanese baseball to North American baseball is probably less justifiable than Morgan dismissing the NPB as AA. Kapler always has been, currently is, and forever will be garbage.

Possibly. But I still think that using him as an example is justifiable. If NPB is AA level (as Morgan says), surely a player such as Kapler, who has adequately achieved in MLB throughout his career (though nothing one could call stellar) and who was part of a World Series winning team no less, should at the very least be able to perform adequately here. He didn't and indeed totally bombed - which just illustrates the competitive nature of the leagues over here.

I guess he could fire other names at me as you mentioned, the likes of Tuffy Rhodes, etc. But I'm not making a case that NPB is of a higher level than MLB - I'm just saying it's a highly competitive league and deserves more respect than it's given.

I used to try to measure NPB, KBO, and CPBL by using our ML, AAA, AA, A, and Rookie system of baseball. Now I realize that NPB cannot be catagorized in such a way.

Many experts now gauge that the difference between MLB and NPB is team depth. The starting nine on most NPB teams are Major League caliber. But the talent drops off dramatically to AA standards with the bench and second string players.

Kiyoshi, well said. That is exactly right. After the first nine the talent drops off. But as for the first nine, same caliber.

As to the people who say the Tigers tied the Devil Rays, they were ahead 7 to 1 in the ninth inning. They threw a young pitcher, Egusa?, and he gave up 6 runs. Yes the game was tied, but the Tigers beat them handily. They also put a whooping on the Yankees, with all their starters in till the 7th inning.

Duke, as for the purity of Japanese baseball, please enlighten us as to how it is flawed compared to baseball in the States. I have seen many fans spit out pointless "points" trying to make themselves sound as if they know.

My point was that as long as baseball is a business, it is not pure, no matter where it is played. I took exception to the fellow who chauvinistically claimed that NPB was pure.

I am also tired of listening to Joe Morgan's comments on Sunday Night Baseball, especially on his views regarding Japanese baseball. I love listening to Jon Miller, but listening to Joe Morgan makes me sick. Joe is absolutely jealous and you could tell from his voice. I would recommend all of you to e-mail ESPN. Maybe we can put an end to Joe Morgan's nonsense if enough complaints are sent.

The e-mail address to ESPN is "askespntv at espn d0t twdc d0t com" [spelled out to thwart off SPAM-bots].

Does anyone know the direct e-mail address to Joe Morgan?

Thank-you.

[by Admin: I won't post a direct e-mail address to Morgan-san. No matter how much you may dislike what he says, that just isn't kind. Links to sites/pages with contact information are fair, though.]

This page has the mailing address to ESPN personalities. Though it states that they're not available to handle inquires, comments, or questions via e-mail. So don't ask or inquiry about it, because it won't happen.

The address is:

[Personality]
ESPN
ESPN Plaza
Bristol, CT 06010
U.S.A.

Without getting into the Joe Morgan discussion, could I just give my two yen's worth on something? When I read Kiyoshi's statement "I am so glad that he can't come over and exert his 'expertise' on the Japanese game, for it is pure," I took it to mean not that Japanese baseball is pure, but that Morgan's "expertise" is pure. (Note the irony invested in the quotation marks).

Sorry for the digression; sorta takes me back to English class. (Yes, Torakichi, but what is lady Macbeth really wailing about in her sleepwalking "Out, damned spot!" speech?)

I'm not sure I agree that was the meaning, but even I struggle with English at times at the keyboard. But Westbaystars-san keeps me in line, with thanks.

The Bard, oy! Puzzling but great the world over. Unlike Joe Morgan.

- When I read Kiyoshi's statement "I am so glad that he can't come over and exert his 'expertise' on the Japanese game, for it is pure" I took it to mean not that Japanese baseball is pure, but that Morgan's "expertise" is pure. (Note the irony invested in the quotation marks).

I take it to mean the exact opposite. Why else would he be "glad that he can't come over and exert his 'expertise'"? Unless he means to say that Morgan's expertise is "pure bull."

- I am so glad that he can't come over and exert his "expertise" on the Japanese game, for it is pure.

Right. Well, rather than speculate can Number 65 clarify his intentions?

Let me clarify what I am saying. Holygoat is right. Joe Morgan is pure bull. All he cares about is himself and what he used to do. In Joe Morgan's mind, he is the Muhammed Ali of baseball, "I am the greatest."

No chance Joe, you are not the greatest, and no matter how much you tell us how good you are, we don't believe you. If you are that good, people will talk about you, you won't have to talk about yourself.

My "chauvanistic" view? Where you are implying that my saying that Japanese baseball is pure is without sound facts and merit makes me think you know all about the intricate details of how baseball in Japan and the States is run. I do, I have been involved with both.

Maybe I should re-phrase my quote. Major League Baseball is not as pure as NPB. Duke, you are right in saying that anything run by a business has it's downfalls, but some are worse than others.

That's what I thought.

And let me say this and then I'm outta here. The purity comments smacks of chauvinism through and through. There are no sound facts cited, and as such, it does not deserve merit. You may be an expert, but I'm not going to take your word for it.

Most people on this board seem to suffer from some kind of inferiority complex or are predisposed to looking for some opening where they can spout either views of superiority or bogusly righteous indignation.

I made a comment on another post, but Westbaytars-san was offended and edited it. Take a good look in the mirror, all of you, before getting on your soapbox. Some of your drivel is worse than the perceived slights some of you rail about.

Sayonara.

Actually I think I know what Number_65 wanted to say, but unfortunately he didn't expand on his assertion, and that's what upset The Duke so much. But for The Duke to attack all of us (including even Westbay-san) in the way he did [...]

[Edited by westbaystars: Let's just leave this here. The Duke did have a number of very informative posts. He just has a habbit of expressing himself in a rather offensive manner. It's hard to get the insight without taking some of the rough. I hold nothing against him.]

Let's just look at the facts stated, if Morgan didn't open his mouth and inserted his foot in it, none of us would be at this point. Morgan was wrong, flawed, boasted of his self inter-ego, ingorant, and even partly ethnocentric to a degree.

- Most people on this board seem to suffer from some kind of inferiority complex or are predisposed to looking for some opening where they can spout either views of superiority or bogusly righteous indignation.

I would disagree, respectfully, that most people here don't suffer from an inferiority complex or are looking for a sense of superiority. To suggest that people have an inferiority complex or are looking for a sense of superiority over people, though, is flawed in every way.

Also, let's remember that a lot of the problems with the NPB is the way that it's run. The team is nothing more than a way to make more for the parent company. To fix the problem, the current way of ownership needs to be broken down, to where the companies do something in the best interest of the teams, just not use it for the bottom line of the company.

This doesn't mean, however, that NPB is anything less than a MLB equilvant in my mind and many others, which it is. It just means that the business model it's run on is sometimes corrupt. Though this corruption is slowly starting to break down, following last year and the introduction of new owners (such as Mikitani and Son).

Morgan, in conclusion, can't take his flawed, ingorant, [...] opinion and say that the NPB is of "AA quality" because of one player and expect people not to object to him. It's just asking to be attacked.

First off, I agree that Joe Morgan's "expert" analysis definitely ranges from laughable to cringe inducing and deserving of all our ire.

Personally I don't know if there is a fair way to compare the two leagues. I don't believe that 2 exhibition games say a whole lot. How would Hanshin have done if they did the traveling? Also I don't think you can take much from the successes and failures of players who have crossed over to the other league.

What Joe Morgan failed to take in to account when talking about Kaz Matsui is, he's adjusting not only to a new league but to a very different league and a new cultural to boot. I think posters here forget that as well when talking about Kapler or any other gaijin who have failed in NPB.

AA is a pretty harsh assessment, Joe. To me, pro ball is pro ball. But what if we were to spread the NPB talent pool out over 30 teams, what would be the level of play then? What if MLB was contracted down to 12 teams? Obviously MLB has the prestige to draw more foreigners (and perhaps less of a cultural barrier) and exists in a larger country, therefore has a much larger talent pool. My point is, these, among many other inequities, make it very difficult to compare the two leagues.

I'm a fan of baseball. I really don't have a bias either way. I was just as thrilled when Hanshin won the pennant as I was when the Mariners won 116 games. Unfortunately NPB is always going to seem like the "Kiddy Pool" because of the number of teams, smaller ball parks (besides Koshien), the "Gaijin Limit," and the lack of MLB superstars going to the NPB in their prime.

Until they have a true "World Series" with the winner of the Japan Series vs. The World Series winner, we'll never know how evenly matched each league is. (Of course even this proposal is very "ethnocentric" and not very inclusive to every other league and nation.)

By the reactions of others I can see who you are, so I will take the high road and just reply with facts.

I am no expert, but I play the game for a living, and I'm pretty good at discerning as to what something is and what it's not. So as for the purity issue, it's not going to change your mind whatever I say. It's like talking to a rock.

[By Admin: Let's please let The Duke go. He's done his damage and will move on if nobody replies to his insults.]