Ichiro Trade

- Mariners will look to trade Ichiro to make room to get Little Matsui.

Where did you hear this? Or are you starting your own rumor?

The M's will never trade Ichiro. His mere presence brings in too many customers and merchandising dollars to discard...

The Mariners don't have to worry about losing Japanese fans if K. Matsui is there. Do you think the M's would want to pay Ichiro huge $$$ over a long period of time when they can get Little Matsui for less money and a shorter contract? Little Matsui can bring the same style of play that Ichiro did, except you will add more pop with Little Matsui. Trade Ichiro to the Yankees and get 2-4 quality players and then get Little Matsui.

If you lived in the Seattle area you would see that Ichiro is the biggest baseball star in the Pacific Northwest. Trading Ichiro, a proven MLB all-star, would insult Mariners' fans in the U.S.A. Ichiro was the most popular player in Japan since Oh and Nagashima.

I agree.

Why should or would they? He is probably one of the best players in the current Major Leagues. And as for money is concerned, so what if the Mariners take in extra money? It's still bearly half as much as the Yankees.

Think about it. The Mariners need a shortstop. If K. Matsui goes there, he will be guaranteed the starting spot.

Ichiro would fit in well as a Yankee. He has the personality of a Yankee.

That is a sickening thought.
Booo Yankees.

With Ichiro and Matsui on the same team, that would be the team to watch this year.

That team already is a team to watch. They just need starting pitching.

Which Bobby Valentine is in the process of doing. Looking for great pitchers.

Why would the Yankees need him? "So that the other teams can't." They already have one of the best offenses and defenses I've ever seen, and I saw the 1986 New York Mets. If the Yankees want a good outfielder, then they can have Vladimar Guerrero.

- Think about it. The Mariners need a shortstop. If K. Matsui goes there, he will be guaranteed the starting spot.

Ah, so it is just supposition on your part. A better title for your thread would be, "Should Ichiro be traded?"

I agree 100%. This is just a fantasy trade.

But if it was true, as a Yankee fan, I would be willing to trade just about anybody (except Matsui and Jeter) to get Ichiro. It will solve the lead-off, right field, and lack of defense problems that the Yankees have.

I think Kazuo-chan is going to the Yankees. They are going to move him to third base by dumping Aaron Boone (although I truely believe Kazu-chan is a better shortstop than Jeter). They will not get A-Rod as some people think. It's the evil empire, what can you say.

Exactly what type of personality is a "Yankee personality"? I know for sure that Ichiro wouldn't want to work for that POS Georgie Porgie.

He definitly should start if he gets signed. But if this meens getting rid of Ichiro, than they just have to forget about Matsui.

Kid, this is simply just not happening.

Although the Mariners do need a shortstop, they wouldn't go out of their way to trade Ichiro just to get Matsui. It makes no sense. Who would they replace Ichiro with then? They already are about to lose Cameron in center.

Matsui doesn't have any more power then Ichiro (Safeco is a pitcher's park and the ball flies better to right field where Ichiro's power is). Matsui would probably be anywhere from a .280 to possibly .300 hitter in America, Ichiro is the best pure hitter in baseball and has the potential to make a run at .400.

Ichiro also happens to be the most marketable player in baseball; by getting rid of Ichiro you're basically losing fans and the money they bring in.

Furthermore, Ichiro's recent late season slumps will make it easier for the Mariners to sign him to a reasonable long term deal.

Ichiro to the Yankees? Keep dreaming.

I think Kazuo will do better than you suggested. The consenus among MLB scouts is that he will do better than Hideki.

The outfield position is easier to fill. K. Matsui is potentially an "Ichiro" shortstop. I don't think you will lose Japanese fans because K. Matsui is a rock star as well.

Ichiro's asking price will be at least $8 million+ and I don't think he would take an incentive-based contract this time.

From past decisions from the M's, I don't see them keeping Ichiro. Sign K. Matsui to a shorter and smaller contract. Do you really think the M's will sign Ichiro to a long and pricy contract?

I agree. Are the Mariners willing to spend $8 million plus on Ichiro? If I were the Yankees I will gladly take on that problem and give them Aaron Boone and even Soriano.

If the Mariners were willing to offer $13+ million dollars just to have the right negotiate with Ichiro 3 years ago, there is no doubt they will give him $8 millions a year.

Are you guys [crazy]? Of course they will pay Ichiro an $8 million multi-year contract, and, ya he's worth it! I don't understand why you think they'll trade him. Griffey and A-Rod both went for significantly more money. Not only that, but management is being pressured to put out a good product on the field. Trading Ichiro is probably the worst thing they could do.

Look at Matsui's stats and Ichiro's stats before he came from Japan. You can't seriously beleive that Matsui will be just as good. I think that a .280 - .300 average is reasonable for Matsui's first year and he will be a very good major league hitter. It's just, why get him for Ichiro when you probably will only get him for $3 million cheaper? It makes absolutely no sense.

Please someone with credibility back me up on this. There are just too many reasons for the Mariners not to trade Ichiro.

Ichiro is going nowhere. He's eligible for arbitration, which means Seattle owns him for 2004, '05 and '06. Ichiro's leverage to demand a huge contract is minimal. He earned well above the league minimum during his first three years, which plays a part in how much of a raise he could receive during arbitration.

We're hearing so much about a new multi-year deal because Seattle would prefer to avoid arbitration. No team wants to go into a room and "bad mouth" their best and most popular player.

Ichiro isn't going to be traded and he will be signed to a 3 year deal before going to arbitration.

Sorry, but arbitrators usually base it on how much other players with comparable stats are making. So for a 3 time Gold Glove winner with 200 plus hits each year I could see at least an $8 million tag. How much do you think Seattle would be willing to give for a 3 year contract?

However, another key factor in the determination of the arbitrator is time of service. That is, the more experience a player has, the higher his arbitration award is likely to be, given the same level of skill. Since for this purpose NPB experience does not count, Ichiro is in a market with guys who have 3 MLB years under their belt, which should help temper any award he might get to some degree.

Jim Albright

So, if it goes to arbitration, what figure do you think Seattle should post? Or in your opinion, what kind of a long term contract should they offer before it goes to the arbitration stage?

I'm simply not versed enough in where all the contracts are to answer that question. GMs, agents, and their advisors all have access to that data and spend much time (if they're smart) studying that data to choose their numbers and to justify their choices. I don't have that data, much less the time to properly study it. Thus, I can't accurately answer the question. However, I doubt many 3 year players are making $8 million plus a year.

Jim Albright

Some places I would look for guidance as to how to evaluate Ichiro in an arbitration case: 1) His actual salary (he deserves a raise, everybody agrees), 2) the salaries of some of those with comparable experience in Japan, 3) the salaries of the hitters (and K. Matsui could become a key comparable) from Japan who have come to MLB, 4) the salaries of first and second rounders of 3-5 years ago of hitters with several years' college experience who have had some real success (Burrell, despite his lousy 2003; JD Drew, for example) both in raw terms and in terms of how much their salaries have jumped since their rookie year in MLB. Once I compiled all that data and tried to allow for the differences in value between Ichiro and the players I was comparing him to, I think I could hazard some reasonable guesses. Really, that is the way the two sides argue the case (at least most effectively) before the arbitrator, and that's the kind of thing he uses to make his decision.

Jim Albright

According to some Seattle newspaper reports the Mariners considered offering Ichiro $30 million over 3 years, but were countered with a $45 million over 3 year proposal by his agent. Even if they settle around $12 million, that is a lot of money for Seattle.

I don't agree that Ichiro should be considered a third year player. He has many years of baseball experience. Further, who is a "comparable" other Japanese players? He's an all-star who happens to be from Japan. He has held the AL batting title. He is a great player. It seems to me that his salary should be measured against his peers (other stars no matter what their nationality) in terms of offensive and defensive ability.

All the questions about a Japanese player successfully moving to MLB were disspelled in his first season. It is unfair to categorize him in a special category. Even my misunderstood twin brother George S. would get that right. He would love having Ichiro-san in the outfield. Maybe he ought to trade him for Soriano?

I didn't say it was fair, but under the terms of the agreement between the MLB and its players, that's where we start with Ichiro. If there is language which somehow allows for an exception for him, I am unaware of it. I will, in all candor, state I do not know the whole process, much less have access to the language governing same.

Jim Albright

Get Over It. George Blew His First And Only Chance For Ichiro To Wear The Pin Strips. Seattle Will Pay Whatever To Keep Him! You're Not An IchiroFan, You're A Yankees' Fan! I Do Love Little Matsui, And Would Love To See Him On Any Of My Favorite Teams, But I Wouldn't Take Big Matsui, D. Jeter, A. Soriano, A. Boone, and Little Matsui For Ichiro. Keep Dreaming George And So-Called IchiroFan!

It seems that the Mariners have offered a 3 year $10 million contract, and Ichiro's agent is demanding at least $15 million.

Uh oh.

That is right. The agent and Ichiro know how popular he is in Seattle. So I guess the Mariners will have to pay up. Or they could take their chances in arbitration for a few years.

I read that Ichiro was offered 3 years at $10 million per year, and that Ichiro was looking for $15 million per year.

Even if the worst happens and the M's fail to sign him, Ichiro will be on the Mariners for the next three years via arbitration.

That's correct, Ichiro wants $15 million a season. I don't know [what's wrong with his agent].

I can't see the Mariners going for $15 million/year or see Ichiro accept anything less. If the M's are smart, they should trade him to make room for K. Matsui and let the Yanks pay Ichiro $15 million/year.

That's a terrible idea. The Yanks need Ichiro badly. He solves all of their problems: lead-off hitter and defense, what with the right field hole and all.

The Mariners won't trade Ichiro, for multiple reasons as I said before, but mostly because he's so popular in Seattle. Apparently, K. Matsui isn't even sure if he's coming to the U.S.

Ichiro won't take $15 million, I'm sure they can work out something a little more reasonable.

If the M's are smart, they'll just take him to arbitration. He's a dynamic player, but his stats have been in decline for three straight years. I highly doubt he'd get $10 million in arbitration.

Ichiro's agent better hope the M's don't call his bluff. $10M/year is a great deal for Ichiro in this depressed market.

I agree that $10M is a very fair deal. But the Mariners won't take Ichiro to arbitration; you don't want to insult your most popular player in court.

If the Mariners are able to sign Kazuo Matsui, Ichiro will revert back to his hitting style that was more appropriate for the 3-hole. There is no way the M's will trade Ichiro in order to get the services of an unproven Matsui.

Despite what some are posting regarding Ichiro's "decline," he is still much too critical to the Mariners' success. Rather than replace Ichiro, the M's will attempt to bolster the team with somebody like Matsui, so they don't wear Ichiro down by mid-August.

Ichiro will end up signing with the M's for $12-13 million for 2 years. The M's have no problem with the per year amount, they have a problem with long-term, guaranteed contracts, since they were burned with the Ichiro deal.

Matsui will be lured to the M's by their style of play and their team philosophy, and by the fact that with Seattle, he won't be asked to play second base, but will be recruited to play his natural position of shortstop.

First off ICHIROFAN is a troll from the official Mariners' fan forum known as "hiddenenemy."

Second of all, I don't know if the M's will go after little Matsui as much as other teams considering that he hits 30 homers per year from what I've heard (10 homers in North America) and he hits .330 (I'm guessing he'll hit .260 to .280 in North America). His defense sounds pretty good and he's fast, but Carlos Guillen an under rated shortstop for the M's and had a great year in 2003. He also has good defense and showed some real power at times this season.

I say the M's stay with Guillen, if not they'll probably get Miguel Tejada, a power hitting former MVP with great but inconsistent defense.

Also, why on earth would we trade Ichiro!? He's a cash cow! The M's won't let him go even if he hit .250, he generates too much money! Even though he's asking for too much in $15 million a year, he's a great player and will be back in 2004 as a Mariner. Ichiro going to the skankees is a joke! If we traded Ichiro to the evil empire we would ask for Soriano, Jeter (to p*** you off), Posada, Rivera (maybe), Giambi (maybe, we don't need any steroid taking first baseman though), or a bunch of prospects if we didn't get Rivera or Giambi plus money. So Jeter, Soriano, and Posada for sure, and either some prospects and money, or either Giambi, Rivera, or Matsui (he apparently can't hit over here, but he would be a good boost over in Japan). That's a lot to ask for, no doubt, but that's what he's worth considering how much money he makes the Mariners. And to add to that, he's the best right fielder in baseball!

Tejada won't hit 30+ homeruns at Safeco. His defense is not very consistent, and his personality would most likely not mix with the Mariners. Not to mention the fact that he will cost $9 million plus.

Matsui is a much better fit for the Mariners. I think you're underrating him; I guess that he will hit .280 - .310 his first year with 40+ steals. Ya, and his defense is sick.

Living in Seattle, I can vouch for the fact that Ichiro has a status in this town that goes beyond just baseball. He symbolizes the suprise Mariner year of 2001, when everybody in the baseball world had given up on the M's because they'd lost A-Rod to Texas.

Ichiro generated the spark that energized the whole team, and made the city forget Alex Rodriguez. He will also undoubtedly give Seattle a home town discount when it comes to negotiating his contract. Even though some fans are whining that $12-13 million per year for 3-4 years is too much, there is little doubt that Ichiro will get such a contract. He deserves it, and Yamaguchi will bring pressure to Mariner upper management to make it happen.

In fact,I will be surprised if both Ichiro and Little Matsui have not signed with the M's by the beginning of March. Despite the glitz factor of playing for the Evil Empire in New York or the laid-back Dodgers, the Mariner philosophy and style of ball will ultimately lure Kazuo to Seattle.

Godzilla belongs in New York, Kazuo belongs in Seattle. However, Ichiro owns Seattle.

I'm not so sure Little Matsui will end up in Seattle. There's talk of him not wanting to play on a team that already has a Japanese position player.

I doubt that. K. Matsui doesn't seem to have a huge ego.

This is definetly true, and I still think Ichiro will only get better. He just shouldn't attempt to hit for power during the second half of the season.

It's just he should give the Mariners a break, although Ichiro definetly warrants a $12-13 million contract, the $10 million one isn't all that bad either.

I know Ichiro is an icon in Seattle, but Seattle is a small market team and that would be a huge salary hit of $12-$15 million. The Mariners should trade him for the future of the team. If he should get hurt in the last few years of his contract, what would his trade value be then?

If he is traded, don't look for him to go to the Yankees even though George has an open wallet policy. Second, don't look for Kazuo Matsui to end up in Seattle. He will most likely end up elsewhere where he could make more money in the future. Locking him up anywhere is not a sure thing.

The Mariners are not a small market team. Their payroll for next year is projected at $100 million.

Ichiro has never had a major injury in the past three years. He stays in great shape.

When we talk market size, we are of course speaking of the U.S. TV market. Outside of the U.S. has no baring on TV revenue in the U.S. And with TV households in Seattle being at 1.6 million, at best, Seattle is a medium to small market team. That's why New York, with 7.3 million households, can buy any player they want. If Seattle's payroll is really over $100 million, they are over-spending and will definatley not be able to offer much more to Ichiro. I hope you're wrong on that $100 million projection.

Seattle is only one of two or three teams that is actually making a profit in the Major Leagues. Their projected payroll is about 95 million dollars for next year. (Sources: www.seattlemariners.com and www.seattle-pi.com; various articles talk about the $95 million payroll.)

Plus, Seattle is the only baseball team in the Northwest, and most baseball fans in the Northwest are Seattle fans, so it actually gives them a very big fan base. It is no New York, but it is no small market team either.

Small Market? The Mariners are followed in at least 3 Countries. Western Canada, All of Japan, and all over the Pacific Northwestern U.S.A. Go look at your map and tell me how many other teams cover that. I would guess you could count that many teams on one hand!

I think the $10 million a year for 3 years is good and fair ($30 million contract). That is a 100% raise. Ichiro warrants that, but he doesn't warrant a 200% raise, especially the way he played the second half of the season for two straight seasons!

The Yankees would gladly take Ichiro. He'll fit nicely in Paul O'Neill's right field, or they can move Bernie to left field, play Godzilla in center, and have Ichiro in right field.

The Yankees are the Evil Empire and rule all.

You guys crack me up. Ichiro leaving Seattle this year is as likely as beef at $5 per pound in Tokyo.

Actually 5$ Beef in Japan is very possible. However, Ichiro leaving the Mariners? Never. Sorry Snakeeees.

In some Tokyo hotels, $5 will get you a cup of coffee with no refill. A portion of Kobe Beef can go for over $100 a serving.

OT: I've regrettably paid up to $9 per cup at a hotel in Osaka. However, a Grande Latte at Starbucks in Japan costs the same and tastes the same as in the U.S.A., but with better service.

Kaz isn't going to displace Jeter. He's likely going to the Dodgers or the Angels. If he has any cojones, he'll sign with the Mets.

I hope he is not a bust. There is some possibility of that. Caveat emptor.

Kaz will move to second to play in the big leagues, esp. if he wants to play on the elite Yankees. Sori has to be moved, or traded, and Kaz will play second base, and he'll like it. If George decides to go after him.

With the Yanks' pending signing of Gary Sheffiels, the outfield is set with Williams, Matsui, and Sheff. Soriano isn't moving unless he gets traded for A-Rod. As such, don't look for Kaz to be a Yankee.

- With the Yanks' pending signing of Gary Sheffiels, the outfield is set with Williams, Matsui, and Sheff. Soriano isn't moving unless he gets traded for A-Rod. As such, don't look for Kaz to be a Yankee.

It's too early in the off-season to assume anything just yet. If the Yankees move Nick Johnson for Javier Vazquez, for instance, they could make room for Kazuo. Hiding Soriano's so-so defensive skills at DH isn't a bad idea.

The Yankees don't need the Sheff. They're already strong enough. I hate how everyone thinks that the Yankees need to pick up another super-star. All they should do is get a mediocer outfielder and they'll have a team that could be the all-star team.

The Yankees are set in the outfeild because Little Matsui is going to Texas.

Personally, I don't really think that the Mariners are in a position to trade the player who keps the offense strong and productive. If the Mariners were to get rid of Rey Sanchez and Carlos Guillen. If worst comes to worst, you could trade Bret Boone.

You guys, you guys. Boone is the second to last guy the Mariners would trade behind Ichiro.

As I said before, the Mariners at this point can't get rid of Ichiro. They're probably going to lose Mike Cameron to the Mets, and if Randy Wynn gets injured or declines a future offer from the Mariners, the Mariners are going to have nothing for the outfield.

Um, why don't you start reading the news a little more? The Mariners signed Raul Ibanez over a week ago, and now they have four outfielders, two of them Golden Gloves. They have three hitters in Ichiro, Winn, and Ibanez that will most likely result in an outfield batting average of over .300. They have two outfielders, Cameron and Ibanez, who can hit for decent power. They have four solid outfielders, and all of them are too expensive to be benched.

If anything, they should unload one of the outfielders (Cameron or Winn) for younger and cheaper talent, hopefully someone who can play their infield, because with the exception of Bret Boone, the Mariner's probably have one of the weakest hitting infields in all of baseball.

Bloomquist is a utility player, Olerud and Cirillo are washed up, and lets face it, Guillen is never going to hit as well as people expected him to.

My bad, Cameron's a free agent. They should either let him go instead of paying him the +$7 million salary that he will likely demand. Winn comes at a much cheaper price, somewhere between $3-4 million and hits for a better average and fields at an above average level.

The trio of Ichiro (with his new contract), Ibanez, and Winn would cost about $20 million, a bargain for the ability that they get in the outfield. Adding Cameron, however, would use up more payroll than the Mariners would like.

The Mariners aren't going to trade him unless he has 2 or 3 straight .270 or less seasons. Even if you had to get rid of someone to make room for Matsui (SS), why would you get rid of not only the best player, but an outfielder?

The Rangers are going to go after Little Matsui because the Ranngers, without a doubt, will trade A-Rod to the Red Sox for Many.

I can't believe that there are 71 (72 now) replies to this ridiculous rumor. Ichiro is to the current Mariners' fans what Griffey was to the 1990s Mariners. The Mariners could have both Ichiro and Matsui.

Could is not good enough. It looks like Matsui is going to the Mets? But the Mariners may end up with Tejada. And they still must decide on long term or arbitration with Ichiro.

The Mariners will probably try to negotiate a long term contract with Ichiro this off season instead of going to arbitration.

Here, I must agree with Kiyoshi-san.

What a waste of electrons. Ichiro will retire a Mariner, unless he decides to end his career one day in Japan.

I must agree with Kiyoshi also. With Ichiro and Matsui on the same team, they could make their team proud.

It's all moot now. Ichiro re-upped for 4 years. Terms not disclosed right now.

Ichiro got $44 million for 4 years. Pretty good money in today's market, IMHO.