H. Matsui to Cooperstown?

The only way Hideki Matsui should be even be considered for Hall of Fame consideration is until after eight-time all star Jim Rice, seven-time all star Edgar Martinez, and six-time all star Harold Baines are inducted. Please don't reply with "DHs aren't HOF worthy since they are one dimensional players" response since Bill Mazeroski is in Cooperstown and he had been just as "one-dimensional" as those three.

Matsui's Japanese stats should not be considered since the Hall of Fame has never inducted Sadaharu Oh. I also do not think you realize how hard it would be for any player at the age of thirty-one to average ".300 - 30 - 100" for the next ten years.

Right now, the Japanese player with a chance to begin to open the doors of Cooperstown to Japanese players is Ichiro. He's got an MVP, the single season hit record, and some batting titles all in the majors. He's very likely to have a career MLB average over .300. He might need some consideration of his NPB accomplishments, which would probably help other candidates.

Unless Hideki can garner some of the same kind of major league awards and league leaderships, he's not going to be the first one to get in. When Hideki's career is done, he might be worthy, he might not - so much depends on what he will do in the future. But right now, I can't see him as the first NPB player to make it.

Jim Albright

Right now the first person to make us face this call will be Ichiro Suzuki. His effect on the game in the United States is of major importance, his numbers are of outstanding levels, and his performance speaks for itself.

Ichiro will be the one to push the issue of Japanese players in the HOF. Also, Ichiro will for sure be in the Hall of Fame before Hideki Matsui. Ichiro probably won't need his NPB accomplishments, some others may. Though we truly should look at the NPB accomplishments of players such as Ichiro Suzuki and Hideki Matsui (if he makes it that far).

Hideki is a great player, but hasn't made the effect Ichiro has. This is why Ichiro is more deserving as the first Japanese hall of famer in my mind, and is the player that will best open the Hall of Fame to inducting NPB players.

I agree that Ichiro has the best shot, due his dominance in MLB. He has already set the single season hit record. He is really an extraordinary player. He can go in like Tony Gwynn went in, but he's going to need 10 years in MLB and to keep up what he's doing.

Matsui is a very fine player, but he doesn't dominate. A slugger like him will have to have slugger like MLB credentials, 450+ homers .300 BA, maybe 1,500 RBIs. And sorry, NPB stats may not count for much in HOF consideration. (HOF enshrines baseball as played in North America.) The players like Rice that the other fellow mentioned were every bit as good as Matsui and at least as deserving.

Why is Cooperstown so important to an NPB fan? Isn't there a HOF in Japan for the game as it is played in Japan?

- Why is Cooperstown so important to an NPB fan?

If you look again, you'll see that the original poster is actually a Yankees fan.

But I think you'll find that NPB fans readily acknowledge that MLB attracts the best players in the world, so to be recognized as being among the best of the best is something to be celebrated. It's a "local boy makes good" sort of thing.

But I agree that Ichiro has the best shot. For a start, he has two years' more experience in MLB than Matsui. And he's won all those titles and set all those records. And he's a regular on the All Star roster. And perhaps more importantly, he was a pioneer - the first Japanese position player ever to play in MLB. He'll be a popular choice.

- Right now, the Japanese player with a chance to begin to open the doors of Cooperstown to Japanese players is Ichiro.

Actually, I think that Hideki Matsui's case for Cooperstown will be the more important one. With Ichiro, I just can't see any way that his Japanese stats will be at issue. Even if his career numbers are low (because he spent half of his career in an 'unrecognized' league), I still believe that he'll get in with a Kirby Puckett-esque vote. Short brilliant careers, combined with sky-high popularity can be enshrined in Cooperstown.

So I'm not entirely sure that Ichiro's Hall of Fame candidacy is going to do much to legitimize Japanese stats in the eyes of voters.

Hideki is more of a borderline example, which is probably going to make his case more controversial. While I think he'll eventually lose in his Hall of Fame bid (as many of you have said, his career Major League numbers will be relatively low, and he won't likely set any glamorous records), I do think that the cry of "we should consider his Japanese stats as well" will be far louder for Matsui. He will need it more.

So I think that Hideki's Hall voting will probably be more likely to kickstart a debate on the inclusion of Japanese players than Ichiro.

- The only way Hideki Matsui should be even be considered for Hall of Fame consideration is until after eight-time all star Jim Rice, seven-time all star Edgar Martinez, and six-time all star Harold Baines are inducted.

Actually, I don't agree with this at all. I don't believe that we should allow one act of bad judgement to legitimize another. Players from the 1980s (Jim Rice, Harold Baines, Dale Murphy) have largely been victimized by the current offensive statistical boom. It is criminal that these men are held back simply because they don't stack up with numbers that players put up today. But that has no bearing on the fact that Japanese players will also be victimized by having approximately ten years worth of upper-level professional stats discounted.

There's no reason why we can't be opposed to both injustices. It would be nice if Rice, et. al. were allowed in first, but one need not come before the other.

Right, he's a Yankee fan. I won't hold that against him.

Do you think Tuffy Rhodes will get inducted in the Japanese Baseball Hall of Fame? He played virtually his whole professional career in Japan. Is there a minimum number of years played rule? It seems like the 10 years used in MLB is reasonably fair. How many years does Tuffy have in NPB?

One guest wrote: "I am a huge Yankee fan and huge Hideki Godzilla Matsui fan. He is one of the best players and best clutch players the Yankees have had over the past 35 years."

Matsui isn't the best clutch hitter on the Yankees this year, Shefield is the second best clutch player of the American League.

I dont think Ichiro has a better shot at the HOF. His average stats will soon decline because of lack of speed.

- Actually, I think that Hideki Matsui's case for Cooperstown will be the more important one. With Ichiro, I just can't see any way that his Japanese stats will be at issue. Even if his career numbers are low (because he spent half of his career in an 'unrecognized' league), I still believe that he'll get in with a Kirby Puckett-esque vote. Short brilliant careers, combined with sky-high popularity can be enshrined in Cooperstown.

Exactly, even if Ichiro's numbers do fall off some, he still gets in with the sky-high popularity. Though this year his numbers have been OK. He has tied his career total in home runs, and his career average is still .333. Ichiro's numbers would have to fall to an extreme low rate not to be considered first for the Hall of Fame. Ichiro's numbers and accomplishments already speak for themselves.

- Hideki is more of a borderline example, which is probably going to make his case more controversial.

Hideki Matsui will probably play for 10 years, too. He's only 31 years old. I still think he can put up good numbers for a long time. Though, Ichiro Suzuki had a much more bigger effect than Hideki. I think Hideki Matsui will have a good chance to make the HOF if he continues putting up consistent numbers for another 8-10 years.

- It is criminal that these men are held back simply because they don't stack up with numbers that players put up today.

I agree completely that it would be criminal to keep Japanese players out of the HOF because injustices to other players (i.e. Rice, Murphy, and Baines). The only one there I would truly say is Hall of Fame material is Rice. Murphy falls short to me, as does Baines, who I watched numerous times with the Orioles.

- Do you think Tuffy Rhodes will get inducted in the Japanese Baseball Hall of Fame? He played virtually his whole professional career in Japan.

As for this question, I think that Rhodes will make the Japanese Baseball Hall of Fame. Rhodes has put up consistent numbers for 10 years (minus his injury year this year). Rhodes has 360 home runs in his career in Japan. I think he has a good chance of getting inducted in the Japanese Baseball Hall of Fame.

- His average stats will soon decline because of lack of speed.

Ichiro's average stats will soon fall? Can you please explain this sacrasm to me. Just read Ichiro's 162 game averages - they're nothing but average. His career isn't either. A .333 average, 50 HR's, 299 RBI, 1,085 hits, 540 runs, 184 SB's, a .377 OBP, a .994 fielding pct, and a .442 slugging pct. He also has a MVP, ROY, 4 Gold Gloves, a Silver Slugger, is a 5-time All Star, 2 time batting crown winner, the all-time single-season hit leader, and much more.

I think we are all jumping the gun on an issue that will not be considered for a long time. First of all, Matsui will probably play for another 7 years (barring injury). I think he said he wanted to play 10 years in MLB. Then a player must be retired for 5 years before he can be voted in to HOF.

Since life is short, why don't we just enjoy his current accomplishments, especially if you are a Yankee fan.

Matsui is one heck of a player, but to me, he is a bit like Rafael Palmeiro (and no, I am not making any connections between Matsui and steroids). They've both had consistent, quiet careers up to this point. There were doubts about Palmeiro's chances of making the HOF before the scandal; one would have to assume that while Matsui was a very respected player, he did not stand out as an out-and-out great.

In response to the question about Tuffy Rhodes, there is no minimum service rule in Japan I'm aware of, and even if there is, the fact that Randy Bass has gotten so close on less service than Tuffy should indicate Rhodes would be eligible. However, there is a 15 year wait after retirement. I'd say Rhodes is qualified, and being one of the guys tied for the single season HR record with 55 HR will help his cause.

Jim Albright

- The only one there I would truly say is Hall of Fame material is Rice. Murphy falls short to me [...]

I guess Dale Murphy will never get the respect he is due. In the 1980s, Murphy would have to be considered the best player in the whole MLB. Not only did he play for dreadful teams, he was a back-to-back league MVP, he was a Gold Glove winner multiple times, and he was the first player to hit 30/30 (HR/SB). Not only that, he was usually the leading vote getter in fan All-Star balloting, and I would consider that the essence of FAME! Murphy was/is an all-around great person and family man and never complained about his physical ailments that derailed his career or the pitiful teams he played for. Plain and simple, Murphy should be in the Hall of Fame and these steroid phonies today should be banned.

I do also think Rice should be in the Hall as well. He was a great hitter, although he did play in a great hitter's park for better teams than Murphy did. If only his eyesight hadn't gone bad.

Baines is just like Vada Pinson. He played for a long, long time trying to get 3,000 hits. Baines was a good to great player, but I wouldn't consider him a Hall of Famer. If you do, you have to consider Pinson, Al Oliver, and some other good hitters that never made it as well.

Edgar Martinez was a very good player for his time and would have had a chance if his career had been longer. Unfortunately for him, Seattle didn't give him a shot to play until he was in his late 20s. If he had time playing in a foreign league to consider, I would say Martinez would have been considered like Ichiro would.

One thing on Ichiro. If Tony Oliva can become a Hall of Famer, Ichiro can as well. I think all Ichiro needs to do is reach 2,000 hits. He has the fame side down and the individual accomplishments.

Hideki Matsui will have a tough time making it unless he really turns into the monster type hitter he was in Japan. Unless he starts leading the league in home runs or RBIs for at least a couple of seasons, I think he will need to have at least 350 career MLB homers to even be considered. Then, he will probably need help from his NPB career because he's just not as famous as Ichiro is across the whole MLB spectrum.

-Greg Slaten-

- In the 1980s, Murphy would have to be considered the best player in the whole MLB.

I'm also well aware that many considered Murphy the best player in the 1980s, but I still consider him a little short in the numbers for hall of fame mention. As for the best player of the '80s, Murphy is up there, though behind Murray, Schmidt, Ripken, Yount, Boggs, and Brett. That's nothing away from Murphy's career, it's just not Hall of Fame material in my opinion.

- [H]e was the first player to hit 30/30"

Ken Williams of the St.Louis Browns was the first person to hit 30/30 in 1922 with 39 HR's and 37 SB's. Willie Mays was the first person to hit 30/30 in the NL with 36 HR's and 40 SB's in 1956. [Baseball-Almanac]

Back to Hideki Matsui, he will probably have a harder time than Ichiro making the HOF. If Hideki can play another 8-10 some years and continue with the same pace he is right now, he might make the HOF with some consideration from his NPB stats.

If Bill Mazeroski, Phil Rizzuto, Travis Jackson, Dave Bancroft, Bobby Wallace, Johnny Evers, and Joe Tinker can make the Hall so can and should Hideki.

Rules for induction in Japan can be found here [Baseball Museum - in English]. A great site for those interested in learning about Japan's greats of the past.

The guy I like to compare Hideki Matsui to is Billy Williams. Williams was overshadowed in the publicity department all those years by Ernie Banks and Fergie Jenkins despite driving in 90-100 runs a year and belting 20-30 homers a year while batting .290-300.

Matsui is overshadowed by Jeter, Rodriguez, and Sheffield, but is the connective tissue that keeps the Yanks' lineup solid. Williams is in the Hall of Fame. Matsui will probably never get there unless he has a monster power surge. But he is a dead cert for the Japanese Baseball Hall of Fame at least.

As for Ichiro, if he can bounce back with three or four more .300-plus seasons and win another batting title or two, he will be inducted due to his effect on the internationalization of MLB. He also cleared the way for Matsui and Iguchi to come to MLB at a time when most MLB managers and front office people (including Ichiro's present manager, Mike Hargrove) believed that no Japanese position was capable of having a lengthy MLB career. Nomo may have started the Japanese immigration to the big leagues, but it was Ichiro who made it explode.

Moreover, he is recognized by his peers as the major league's best overall outfielder and he was the driving force for a team that set a modern day record for regular season wins.

That all has to be taken into consideration.

Lately, Ichiro has been loading up more (like tonight, when he blasted a three run homer off of Shawn Chacon) and I'm curious to see if he might begin to show more power in the coming seasons.

Yeah, Ichiro's hitting for power! It'd be cool if he could beat Matsui in home runs (wishful thinking?).

- If Godzilla plays in the US for the next ten years, hopefully for the Yankees, and plays to the same level each year (no reason why not) and the Yanks win at least one World Series, he should be inducted in the Major League Baseball Hall of Fame.

No reason why not? Unless you're Barry Bonds, Roger Clemens, or Julio Franco, chances are you're going to decline as you get older. Those three are the exception, and so far from the rule it's ridiculous. So why shouldn't we believe he won't play at the same level each year for the next ten years? Because he's at his peak most likely, and won't be going up any more to pad his stats for when the inevitable toll of age catches up with him in his mid to late 30s.

Even if he did play at this level for the next 10 years, well, I don't think he'd make the HOF as a first-balloter.

Through 130 games this year (starting from his rookie season) his rate stats would be:

.294/.372/.482/.854 (Avg/OBP/Slg/OPS)

Let's assume that the league average stays relatively on pace with the last few years. That means the league average is about:

.265/.330/.425/.755

That would give him an Avg+ of 111, an OBP+ of 113, a SLG+ of 113, and an OBP+ of 113. Not exactly impressive. That makes him 10% better than average, assuming no decline in him and no change in league averages.

Now let's talk counted stats. Going from his average over 162-games over the past 2 seasons plus 130 games, you would have the following per 162 games:

147 H, 500 AB, 80 R, 32 2B, 1 3B, 20 HR, 91 RBI, 59 BB, 73 K

That doesn't strike me as an impressive season line. But let's assume that he does it for every year over 10 years. He'd have 1,470 hits, 800 runs, 320 doubles, 14 triples, 200 HR, 910 RBI, 590 BB, 73K. And none of those are impressive.

I am also of the belief that Ichiro has a better chance, but Matsui is pretty much SOL. Ichiro won't make it because of his fame, however, but because he's an incredible lead-off hitter, and possibly one of the better ones we've seen in a while (since Rickey Henderson perhaps? or Harold Baines?), despite his lack of power or plate discipline.

His stats will start to decline though, because he is 31 years old and that generally is on the wrong side of 30 as far as careers are concerned. I'm not saying they're going to drop off immediately, but with the amount of infield hits he gets, a slight drop in speed will see a huge drop in his numbers. He won't be able to beat out those close plays.

The question is just in regards to how long he'll be able to maintain his speed and coordination at a level sufficient to be one of the best hitters (for average) in the MLB.

As far as Palmeiro is concerned, prior to the steroids argument, any sportswriter who didn't vote him in first-ballot deserves to be fired. He was the 4th player to hit 3,000 hits and 500 home runs. He has a lifetime OPS+ of 130. He's a good player, and has been a good player for a long, long time. He deserves entrance to the hall regardless of whether he was on the All-Star team or won a Series.

Godzilla's stats in Japan should be considered for the HOF. However, they most likely will not. They quality of baseball in Japan has been discribed as "Double A" caliber. If that is true, then why would the HOF in Cooperstown consider minor league stats? Hitting minor league pitching is much easier than hitting major league pitching.

As for Matsui and Ichiro's chances of be inducted into Cooperstown; it will not happen for a while. Until Sadaharu Oh, Katsuya Nomura, Shigeo Nagashima, and a dozen other Japanese superstars get in, you will never see a Japanese player get inducted.

Actually, I think that it will take a major league/NPB crossover like Ichiro to break the ice for Oh, Nagashima, et al.

Jim Albright

"Double A caliber"? That's a famous quote by Joe Morgan, if I remember correctly. :P And it has been discussed to death already in this forum, so please take a look at past threads.

The conclusion seems to be that the depth isn't there, but the cream of the crop of NPB talent is MLB caliber (their performances suffer when making the transition to MLB because NPB teams don't have the depth of MLB level talent, so top level NPB players get to face minor league level talent regularly in NPB play). Of course some make the transition better than others, and that probably depends more on the personality of the player than anything else, as many established major leaguers have had trouble adjusting to NPB ball, too.

Few experts (exclude Joe M. as an expert) think NPB is comparable to AA. However, they are significantly different leagues and game, so it is very difficult to make a case for comparable statistics. The pool of crossover players is also statistically insufficient to draw any scientific comparisons.

Japanese or other foreign players who have never played MLB will have zero chance of HOF induction, IMHO. NPB stasts mean nothing for someone who never played in MLB. Cooperstown deals with the North American game. Japan HOF deals with the Japanese game. Ichiro will be overwhelmingly reviewed based on his contribution to MLB. The other guys obviously never played MLB.

Ichiro needs to get a good 8 years in to be even close. If he can continue to be a dominating hitter like Tony Gwynn, then I think some sports writers will look over to his NPB stats to make the case. If he can perform dominantly for 10 years, the better his chances. Koufax is considered the greatest lefty in MLB. While he played slightly more than 10 MLB seasons, he dominated for only about 6. His career stats show 165 wins, hardly enough for a long career pitcher to be considered. But in those 6 years, Koufax was dominant. Koufax retired at 31 due to arthritis. If Ichiro can be as dominant with the bat during his "shortened" MLB career, as Koufax was with his arm in a similar time frame, then Ichiro can make a good case for HOF induction.

Then that means you would support Rookie of the Year candidacy of any NPB player who makes the transition to MLB successfully, correct?

Too many Americans (especially writers) are hypocritical. They only recognize NPB experience when it works against a Japanese player in ROY considerations, but when it could work for a Japanese player for future HOF candidacy, then all of a sudden "NPB is AA caliber."

So, which is it?

One must follow the rules, Lions-san. The rules for ROY are (from Wikipedia):

In order to qualify for the award a player must have accumulated, prior to the season under consideration:

Fewer than 130 at bats and 50 innings pitched in the Major Leagues or Fewer than 45 days on the active rosters of Major League clubs (excluding DL time or any time after rosters are expanded on September first).

Since there is no mention of experience outside of MLB, any experienced player from Japan or elsewhere can be the ROY. Personally, I think it is a hollow honor for someone like Ichiro. From my view, it is demeaning to call a guy like Ichiro a rookie since he was the consumate professional in Japan with tremendous achievement. But that's the rule, and the complaining writers can whine about it, but an experienced guy winning the ROY is within the rules.

The rules on Cooperstown HOF entry require 10 years of MLB baseball experience. There have been a couple of exceptions. When Ichiro and Godzilla get their 10 years of MLB experience and have been retired for 5 years, they will be eligible. Wheteher they get voted in will be based on their performance. I have already commented on Ichiro and an argument for a possible exception.

So which is it? Apple or Orange? When did a gaijin catch a break in NPB? Is honne vs. tatamae hypocritical, or just a cultural difference?

Let him who is without sin cast the first stone. ;op

The fact that you believe ROY considerations for NPB experienced players means that you believe NPB ball is something close to MLB level? Japanese readily admit that MLB is the highest level baseball league in the world, and that's partially why some AAA players come to Japan and flourish (though, many with MLB experience don't, so it's not that simple), so would it then be not a hollow honour? This issue does easily get muddled.

Gaijin treatment in NPB is a red herring when discussing MLB ROY and HOF issues.

- Personally, I think it is a hollow honor for someone like Ichiro. From my view, it is demeaning to call a guy like Ichiro a rookie since he was the consumate professional in Japan with tremendous achievement.

Right, this is exactly the problem. When it comes to ROY, people say: "Yeah, but this guy is a consummate professional, so he's not really a rookie, even if the rules say otherwise." But when it comes to HOF consideration, other people say: "Oh yes, but we must follow the rules. If he hasn't played 10 years in the majors he would be ineligible. End of story."

I agree, follow the rules by all means, but if a significant number of the sportswriters eligble to vote for ROY are ignoring the rules, then they're making a mockery of the whole process.

- Right, this is exactly the problem. When it comes to ROY, people say: "Yeah, but this guy is a consummate professional, so he's not really a rookie, even if the rules say otherwise.

How many people really say that though? A couple mediots say it and it draws attention, but let's look at the voters:

In 1995, Hideo Nomo got 18 of 28 first-place votes for NL Rookie of the Year, 9 2nd-place votes, and 1 3rd-place vote, so he was listed on every ballot

In 2000, Kazuhiro Sasaki got 17 of 28 first-place votes for AL ROY.

In 2001, Ichiro Suzuki got 27 of 28 first-place votes for AL ROY and one 3rd-place vote; he was listed on every ballot.

In 2003, Hideki Matsui got 10 of 28 first-place votes for AL ROY. He had 9 2nd-place votes and 7 3rd-vote places. Two voters left him off the ballot - just as many as left off ROY Angel Berroa (who deserved the award more if you base it off of 2003 performance). No one was listed on every ballot.

I can't find a single case where a voter clearly did not consider an NPB vet as a rookie.

- Right, this is exactly the problem. When it comes to ROY, people say: "Yeah, but this guy is a consummate professional, so he's not really a rookie, even if the rules say otherwise.

- How many people really say that though?

Well, Ed Kranepool just said it, so obviously some people say it.

My point is not that the Japanese players currently in the majors have gotten a raw deal. My concern is that there may be a backlash in the future, and that it's important to nip any false argument like this in the bud.

-- Right, this is exactly the problem. When it comes to ROY, people say: "Yeah, but this guy is a consummate professional, so he's not really a rookie, even if the rules say otherwise.

-- How many people really say that though?

- Well, Ed Kranepool just said it, so obviously some people say it.

I did say that. I also said for consistency (and fairness), experienced foreign players should be viewed as rookies for ROY, just as the HOF views only contributions to the North American game. You can't have it both ways, I agree, as do most writers.

There is a lot that MLB can do to keep things stand up - on drugs, steroids, and records. As for backlash, I don't see an anti-NPB player movement brewing. In New York there may be some skepticism, but if a new guy plays well for a full season, I think he'll get fair consideration.

I'll respond to Something Lions and mijow at the same time.

My opinion is that NPB is better than any AAA league and on any given day, an NPB team can beat any MLB team, and vis-a-versa. The points made earlier on NPB depth and competitiveness level are well taken. I have seen a few games and there are too many good players to compare it to the minors. So when an accomplished professional ballplayer comes over and he is considered a "rookie," I find that insulting to the ballplayer. Yes, and if you buy that arguement, then you start to step in it when one says that pre-MLB doesn't count for HOF consideration.

So, to be consistent, if one says that the HOF honors MLB players (with 10 years) in the North American game, then any baseball honor has to follow the "in the North American game" test. Therefore, a rookie has to be defined as someone with these than the requisite games in MLB. Ichiro (who won) Godzilla (who was robbed), Kaz Matsui (who fell a bit short), and any pro form overseas should be eligible. The rules don't proclude foreign players, and some confused and a few jingoistic sportswriters need to be straightened out.

Since I think the HOF will never honor foreign players (unless they substantialy meet the 10 year MLB test), it is very difficult to argue for or support the few sportswriters' position.

The sportswriters aren't all the brightest or fairest guys in the world. Have a read at the NY Post or NY Daily News and you will see plenty of their team bias coming through as well as their penchant to stir up controversy to sell more papers and to promote their renown. However, there are plenty of stand-up writers who ought to set the record straight. Further, MLB should make a statement on their opinion of the definition of a rookie, along the lines of the HOF arguement. Lastly, I'd like to see NPB games broadcast on ESPN2 so that US fans can see the product for themselves. Most fans aren't stupid and if they see some NPB games, they will realize that guys like Joe Morgan are talking out of their arses. That will clear up the comparability issue once and for all.

One last thing on ROY. How many ROY players can stand up to the test of time? Angel Berroa? Who? Jason Jennings, Marty Cordova, Ben Grieve, Bob Hamelin, Raul Mondesi - all ROY who faded to mediocrity. Godzilla outshines them all, including the guys who won that year. Plus, Ichiro and Sasaki both won, so it's not like there is a mass conspiracy against Japanese players. Writers get it wrong sometimes, and narrow minded writers more often.

On the gaijin in NPB, my words to the player is caveat emptor - buyer beware. It's an entirely different system, environment, and rule book. Deal with it if you come and don't come if you can't. Life isn't always fair, on both sides of the Pacific.

- [...] there are plenty of stand-up writers who ought to set the record straight. Further, MLB should make a statement on their opinion of the definition of a rookie, along the lines of the HOF arguement.

Ed, that's definitely the way to go I think - MLB and the sensible sportswriters should state once and for all what the position is, so that the views of the "confused and jingoistic" guys are seen as just that: confused and jingoistic.

I forgot that Nomo was a ROY. That makes 3 Japanese players to get that honor.

Hmmm. Matsui in Cooperstown?

Sure, if he can keep it up for another 8-10 years, and earn some Gold Gloves, batting titles, and such, along the way.

Living in Japan and N. America, I have witnessed the difference in his game. If his baseball stats here in Japan were to have some bearing on his nomination to the "Cooperstown" Hall of Fame, he'd likely be pretty close to an invitation! However, like I said, let's see what numbers he puts up in the majors. He needs to demonstrate the same stardome in the majors before I'd nominate him!

As for 'Ichiro' Suzuki, since he's been mentioned in this forum - wow, what a player. Likewise, I have seen his play here in Japan as well as Safeco Field (Seattle) a number of times. He can single handedly win games in both leagues. I may be biased, but if he can keep it up for just a few more years, only to prove his longevity, he is well deserving of an invitation.

That's just my opinion.

Cheerz

Cooperstown? Maybe as a janitor. He doesn't even compare to the Yankee greats. If he wasn't Japanese you wouldn't even know he played.

Ouch! Your citicism is harsh and totally unwarranted. I'd love for H. Matsui to play the outfield for the Mets. Anytime. The guy is the consummate professional.

That's funny. Most Yankee fans consider him the most clutch player on the team, along with Sheffield.