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How are Names of Foreign Asian Players Written?

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How are Names of Foreign Asian Players Written?
I know that all non-Asians have their names written in katakana. But it seems like the Asian players are written in some form of Kanji. And, since Koreans use a different writing system entirely, how exactly are names written for them? Kyojin's Lee (李 承燁) from Korea and Lin (李 昱鴻) from Taiwan are examples I know, but they exists for many other players as well.

So what do those Kanji say and in which language do they say it? And, if they are not in Japanese, can Japanese people read them or do they just memorize them?

Thanks for the help!
Comments
Re: How are Names of Foreign Asian Players Written?
[ Author: westbaystars | Posted: Apr 15, 2009 10:39 AM | YBS Fan ]

Ah, cross-cultural baseball questions! I really like these.

Taking the Taiwanese part of the question first, Japanese Kanji are all derived from Chinese in the first place - 漢字 literally meaning "Chinese character." So it's not surprising that Taiwanese players have their names written the same at home and in Japan.

But there are cases when you will often see them written in Katakana. That would be for one of two reasons:
  1. The player wants to emphasize the pronunciation of his name
  2. The character isn't in the Shift JIS character set
I think that the latter is the most often used reason by the press. Since so many of them are stuck in the Microsoft world, and despite Unicode being available in Redmond's poor excuse of an operating system, many applications (like MS Word) insist on restricting users of their Japanese version to the Shift JIS character set. Linux, Mac OS/X, and the Open Source world makes no such restrictions, easily allowing any character in the world to be mixed in the same document. But since most reporters still carry around Microsoft based computers to file their reports, they're restricted to what the monopoly abuser will allow them to use.

One would think that Mainland Chinese players would fall under the same category as Taiwanese players. However, they use the "simplified Chinese" character set which is a derivative of Chinese characters that branched off well after Kanji were imported to Japan. Therefore, many of the Mainland Chinese characters have no direct rendering in the standard 5,000 or so characters mainly used in Japan.

While I've heard stories of Japanese who have gone to China and communicated via Kanji on paper napkins, doing so in Taiwan is a great deal easier as Taiwan still uses more characters that are in common with those used in Japan.

One of the things that I had learned in my linguistics courses in college is that the spoken languages of Japanese and Korean are from the same language family (similar to how English and German are both Germanic languages, or Spanish, Italian, and French are all Latin languages). However, Japan's written language is borrowed from China. Therefore many concepts can be expressed and understood despite the spoken languages having little (音読み - on-yomi) to nothing (訓読み - kun-yomi) in common. A recognizable equivalent in this sphere would be the use of Latin (prefixes, suffixes, roots) in English words.

Now, on to Korea.

As I mentioned, Japanese and Korean are both in the same language family. However, Korea's writing system is not derived from Chinese as it was in Japan. Unfortunately, I'm not a scholar on the history of Hangul, so I'll leave that to others. (Please, I am interested for someone to expand this part.) However, I have made a number of observations in transliterating it.

First of all, there appear to be radicals similar to Katakana. For example:
    아 = a    사 = sa    나 = na
악 = ak 삭 = sak 낙 = nak
안 = an 산 = san 난 = nan
암 = am 삼 = sam 남 = nam
Notice the repetition of many of the pieces? Read from upper left to lower right? When I first saw this I thought, "It's Katakana being combined within one character to create other Katakana!"

So that takes care of pronouncing the Hangul characters, but what about meaning? Do Hangul characters have meanings like they do in Japanese and Chinese? Well, considering that names all seem to have equivalents in Japanese, I'm guessing that they do. But why would I think that they have equivalents in Japanese in the first place?

Again, in my explorations into Korean baseball, I've come across many sites and the bilingual "Official 2005 Guide Book to Korean Pro Baseball." The interesting part about the bilingual guide is that one of the two languages is not Korean - it's Japanese. All of the players have a 漢字 name, and the names are consistent when you go back and look up their Hangul. For example, the surname "Kim" (김) is always 金, "Lee" (이) is always 李 (although often transliterated as "yi" or "i"), and "Park" (박) is always 朴 (although also transliterated as "Pak" and "Bak").

Anyway, I suspect that Kanji are a relic left over from Japan's occupation of Korea during the second quarter of the 20th century. But I may be (and probably am) wrong on this matter. These are simply my observations, and I look forward to people with more knowledge in this area to contribute.

One final note: Many of the Kanji used for Korean names are not available to users of Shift JIS either. One Japanese newspaper often writes 李 承燁 as "李承■ (■は火へんに華)" because Microsoft won't let them write the name properly. (It never ceases to amaze me the length people will go to to defend their use of Microsoft products when they won't allow them to do what they want and are clearly inferior to Open Source. But, that's a different story.) So Korean names also often suffer from people being bent to conform to software limitations instead of having technology working for people. Thus you get their names in Katakana, or partially in Katakana (李承ヨプ).
Re: How are Names of Foreign Asian Players Written?
[ Author: kamachi | Posted: Apr 16, 2009 12:33 AM | YG Fan ]

Wow, WBS, thank you SO much for the detailed explanation! That was very helpful. So, can I also get clarification on how Japanese people would read these names?

"Taiwanese players have their names written the same at home and in Japan"

So, can Japanese people read these names since their reading in Taiwan is Simplified Chinese vs. Japanese?

And, for Koreans, I think I understand you saying Japanese will use a Kanji that sounds like a Hangul word. For example, 李 is a Kanji that the Japanese will know to pronounce as "yi" or "i", correct?

Again, very interesting and thank you so much for the help. Japanese baseball is helping me learn so much more than just the game. The old quote is so accurate: "It is true that baseball is just a game...and, the Grand Canyon is just a hole in the ground."
Re: How are Names of Foreign Asian Players Written?
[ Author: Guest | Posted: Apr 16, 2009 11:00 AM ]

- So, can Japanese people read these names since their reading in Taiwan is Simplified Chinese vs. Japanese?

I don't understand the latter part of the sentence, but not many Japanese speakers can pronounce Mandarin or Taiwanese correctly. They do an approximation of the pronunciation like they do for English names.

- Japanese will use a Kanji that sounds like a Hangul word. For example, 李 is a Kanji that the Japanese will know to pronounce as "yi" or "i", correct?

First of all, the Japanese don't get to choose it. That is how it's written by his family in Korea, which is, by the way, using less and less Chinese characters these days. Secondly, Japanese lost the "yi" pronunciation long ago. It was collapsed to the "i" pronunciation. Thirdly, it's not a common knowledge among Japanese speakers that 李 is pronounced something close to "i". Lastly, many South Koreans like to romanize 李 as "Lee." That's what is put on his uniform, which complicates things.
Re: How are Names of Foreign Asian Players Written?
[ Author: westbaystars | Posted: Apr 16, 2009 11:20 AM | YBS Fan ]

Hmmm. Looks like I put too much information in there. Here are some clarifications:

Taiwanese names are written using pretty much the same character set as is used in Japan. So the names can be written the same. But they are still pronounced in Chinese, not pronounced in Japanese.

A good example of a Taiwanese name would be Lin (林) on the Hanshin Tigers. When most Japanese see the name 林, unless they know that it is referring to the Tiger outfielder, they will most likely pronounce the name "Hayashi," not "Lin."

There are two forces at work here:
  1. Written Language
  2. Spoken Language
Japanese and Chinese (including Taiwanese) share a great deal of the former (written language), but not so much the latter (spoken language).

"Simplified Chinese" is practiced on Mainland China, not in Taiwan. Taiwan uses traditional Chinese characters, and are more in line with what is used in Japan. My studies of baseball in Mainland China have been hampered by the large number of differences in Kanji there, while Taiwanese has been relatively easy to read based on my knowledge of Japanese. Was traditional Kanji a casualty of the Cultural Revolution?

And now, back to Korea. It looks like I don't know my history, so please read what others have written on the subject. As much as I don't like writing mis-information, I find that getting participation from people is easier if they're correcting something than simply being asked. So I don't mind throwing my theories out there (with disclaimers) in the hopes of having them confirmed or refuted. It doesn't make the history of Hangul any less interesting, though.

Nonetheless, Korean names are similar to Taiwanese names. While they have a Kanji equivalent (for written language), they are still pronounced in the native (spoken) language - or reasonable equivalent based on the phonics available in Japanese.

The transliteration schemes for 李 are all in the native Korean. Despite it looking like a straight forward pronunciation alphabet (like Katakana), there appear to be a number of different ways to convert the original 이 into the Latin alphabet. The three examples I gave were Lee, Yi, and I. My Japanese Kanji dictionary says that 李 is normally pronounced "ri" (り) in Japanese. However, the various player registries have Lee's name pronounced "I" (イ) in Japanese - going against the local pronunciation.

While players from other Kanji-based countries keep their pronunciation as best as can be pronounced (my name goes from Michael to Ma-i-ke-ru), many players in the past adopted Japanese names. From Taiwan, Taihoh Yasuaki was one of the first I'd heard of. Kaku Taigen was another.

Another topic that many people like talking about is Korean-Japanese spotting. I deliberately avoided discussing them since they were raised in Japan with Japanese names, so I think that they're outside of the scope of your question.

I hope this clears up some of the confusion.
Re: How are Names of Foreign Asian Players Written?
[ Author: Guest | Posted: Apr 16, 2009 12:28 PM ]

- Was traditional Kanji a casualty of the Cultural Revolution?

It has little to do with the Cultural Revolution. The movement for Simplified Chinese dates back to the early 20th century.

Just for your information, Chinese students are taught only Simplified Chinese in school nowadays. 40% of Taiwanese people say that they can't read Simplified Chinese. Hong Kong uses Traditional Chinese. Singapore Simplified. A majority of Chinese-Americans use Traditional. If you take Chinese in school in the US, they teach Simplified. It's getting more and more polarized, isn't it?
Re: How are Names of Foreign Asian Players Written?
[ Author: Christopher | Posted: Apr 16, 2009 1:09 PM | HAN Fan ]

- My studies of baseball in Mainland China have been hampered by the large number of differences in Kanji there, while Taiwanese has been relatively easy to read based on my knowledge of Japanese. Was traditional Kanji a casualty of the Cultural Revolution?

Simplified Chinese was introduced in mainland China after Mao's takeover to enable more people to read and write Chinese. Of course Taiwan and Hong Kong kept the older kind because they did not fall under the new Chinese state.
Re: How are Names of Foreign Asian Players Written?
[ Author: PLNara | Posted: Apr 16, 2009 1:18 AM | HT Fan ]

- So that takes care of pronouncing the Hangul characters, but what about meaning? Do Hangul characters have meanings like they do in Japanese and Chinese? Well, considering that names all seem to have equivalents in Japanese, I'm guessing that they do. But why would I think that they have equivalents in Japanese in the first place?

One explanation of the Hangul characters is that they're supposed to resemble the shape of the human mouth when pronouncing that character. I remember reading this somewhere, and a quick check of Wikipedia agrees.

Hangul is supposed to be one of the easiest languages to learn to read - I heard once that most Korean kids can read by age four. I'd like to learn it myself but it's way down my to-do list.

- Again, in my explorations into Korean baseball, I've come across many sites and the bilingual "Official 2005 Guide Book to Korean Pro Baseball." The interesting part about the bilingual guide is that one of the two languages is not Korean - it's Japanese. All of the players have a 漢字 name, and the names are consistent when you go back and look up their Hangul. For example, the surname "Kim" (김) is always 金, "Lee" (이) is always 李 (although often transliterated as "yi" or "i"), and "Park" (박) is always 朴 (although also transliterated as "Pak" and "Bak").

I have the 2006 version of that book, and I could swear I remember seeing one or two variations on the Kanji that surprised me, but I can't remember what they are off the top of my head. I've ordered the 2009 edition, btw, and am looking forward to getting it.

- Anyway, I suspect that Kanji are a relic left over from Japan's occupation of Korea during the second quarter of the 20th century. But I may be (and probably am) wrong on this matter. These are simply my observations, and I look forward to people with more knowledge in this area to contribute.

A Korean coworker of mine told me that Koreans like to have the Kanji in what they read for the contextual information that Kanji carries with it. As a reader of Japanese, I know what he means.

- One final note: Many of the Kanji used for Korean names are not available to users of Shift JIS either. One Japanese newspaper often writes 李 承燁 as "李承■ (■は火へんに華)" because Microsoft won't let them write the name properly. (It never ceases to amaze me the length people will go to to defend their use of Microsoft products when they won't allow them to do what they want and are clearly inferior to Open Source. But, that's a different story.) So Korean names also often suffer from people being bent to conform to software limitations instead of having technology working for people. Thus you get their names in Katakana, or partially in Katakana (李承ヨプ).

Yes -- that annoys me too, but I don't think it's really an open source vs closed source thing. UTF-8/Unicode is an open standard and shouldn't really be a threat to anyone's business (as far as I can tell). I would guess that the people that are hanging on to SJIS and iso-880-whatever are doing it to maintain compatibility with legacy systems. I suppose MS is territorial -- I have files on my Windows box that one application can read correctly and another cannot (both MS products), thanks poor encoding support.
Re: How are Names of Foreign Asian Players Written?
[ Author: Guest | Posted: Apr 16, 2009 5:14 AM ]

- One of the things that I had learned in my linguistics courses in college is that the spoken languages of Japanese and Korean are from the same language family (similar to how English and German are both Germanic languages, or Spanish, Italian, and French are all Latin languages).

No widely accepted genetic relationship between Japanese and Korean, not similar to European languages.

- But I may be (and probably am) wrong on this matter.

Yes, you are. Hangul was not in use at all up until the early 20th century. What did they use? Yup, Chinese characters. This is part of the reason why it's so hard to establish a genetic relationship between Japanese and Korean. Very little evidence to see what the Korean language was like.
Re: How are Names of Foreign Asian Players Written?
[ Author: number9 | Posted: Apr 16, 2009 1:21 PM ]

Spoken Japanese and Korean is another matter though.

Korean drops the consonant at the beginning of a sentence. So you get "Lee Seung-Yeop" being pronounced as "Ee Seung-Yeop" which is correct. But "Seung-Yeop Lee" pronounced as seen in American media is also correct, because "Lee" does not come at the beginning of a sentence.

That's what little Korean I've learned.
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