Leon Lee, the New Orix Manager

Does anyone know if this is true? Has Ishige been fired, or did he quit?

Seiyu-san, you've got the brothers mixed up. Older brother Leron was the one who was married to a Japanese woman. Leon is (was?-I'm not sure) married to an American woman and their marriage resulted in Florida Marlins' 1st baseman Derrek Lee.

Leron's Japanese wife spoke excellent English. However, the Lee brothers both spoke more Japanese than the average foreigner playing in Japan.

When Leon was playing with the Swallows (or maybe it was the Whales), I saw him get interviewed on "Pro Yakyu News" in Japanese. He spoke it fairly well, although maybe not quite as well as Tuffy Rhodes.

Leon hasn't been speaking Japanese on T.V. since his hiring as manager, so maybe he's forgotten most of his Japanese.

I think it's absolutely fantastic and fitting that Orix selected Leon Lee. If there's one former suketto that deserves to become manager of a NPB team, it's Lee (or Charlie Manuel). I just worry about how much support he'll get from the front office, as Ishige has been complaining about yesterday. He seems to be pretty bitter about the whole situation, and his mouthing out to the press is something you don't see very often in Japanese baseball.

Is there any chance a Japanese guy will manage an MLB team in the next hundred years? I have this recurring nightmare that by some weird twist of fate, Sennichi Hoshino becomes manager of the Detroit Tigers, and on opening day, gets into a brawl with an umpire, leading to a surreal scene where Hoshino is yelling "bakayaro" and the umpire is yelling "you scumbag." Meanwhile, the Tigers' players are in the dugout shaking their heads, not understanding what on earth their crazy new Japanese manager is doing, at which point I wake up in a pool of sweat. (PS: I'm a Hanshin fan.)

I think it's doubtful that a Japanese would manage an MLB team in our lifetimes. The only North American sport that has tried coaches who weren't from North America was the NHL (two European coaches) and both were dismal failures.

You would need a Japanese player to come to the U.S., become a very dynamic player, and also speak English well to have any chance of success.

If there were a team that had several Japanese players on it (like 10), then the situation would be different.

If there's ever a Japanese manager in MLB, it would most likely be Don Wakamatsu (bench coach for the Rangers) or Len Sakata (AAA Fresno Grizzlies manager). Wendell Kim, although not Japanese, could become the first Asian manager in MLB. He says that is one of his goals is to manage in the Major Leagues. Wave 'em in Wendell.

Wakamatsu, Sakata, Kim, Mike Lum, and others are Americans. You can say that they are Asian-Americans but they are still Americans not Japanese, Korean, or Chinese.

I think Shigetoshi Hasegawa can be a big league manager. He is an intelligent man with a good sense of humor who is fluent in English.

Ooh, good call, Seiyu. I'd have to say that Hasegawa is the front runner to being the first Japanese manager in MLB, and I think there's a very high chance he'll be the first Japanese pitching coach. It all seems right up his alley. He'd even be a little fiery, too. I can easily see him getting in the umpire's face and getting ejected.

As a regular guest at the Cubs' spring training hotel, I have had the wonderful opportunity to get to know Leon over the last few years.

Leon not only speaks Japanese fluently, he has also, in his capacity as Cubs' Pacific Rim scout, become fluent in Korean as well. And, not to overstate the obvious, but it would seem that fluency in Japanese would be a job requirement to be a manager of a Japanese team.

Leon's wife is American and is the mother of son Derrick.

And he is an incredibly outgoing person and is very excited at this opportunity. I, too, hope that he is given a true chance to turn the team around.

Ron, let's not go overboard here. Leon isn't exactly fluent in Japanese, unless your definition of fluent is a very liberal one. I seriously doubt that Leon is fluent in Korean also.

I had the opportunity to meet Leon when I was a young kid and he was playing for the Whales and I found him to be a very pleasant person. I like him a lot also, but let's not exagerrate his linguistic abilities.

BTW, I also thought that there were many parallels between Derrek Lee and Kobe Bryant in that they both grew up overseas because of their fathers and they both had a lot more talent than their fathers, but while Kobe has become a superstar, Derrek has been somewhat of a disappointment. He tore up the minor leagues but he has put up only mediocre (relatively speaking) stats.

- BTW, I also thought that there were many parallels between Derrek Lee and Kobe Bryant in that they both grew up overseas because of their fathers and they both had a lot more talent than their fathers.

Hmmm... a very debatable statement. Was Leon Lee the more talented player, compiling a .308 career average in Japan? Or is Derrek Lee the more talented player, who currently has a career batting average of .261 in the MLB?

Give me a break. Are you saying that a .308 lifetime average in Japan is better than a .261 lifetime average in the big leagues? Come on, get real. Leon didn't even get one AB in the major leagues. Sure, maybe he had big league talent, but Derrek has now played in the big leagues for a number of years.

I used to think that the talent level of Japanese baseball was high and that it was above AAA level, but with Matsui now struggling for the first time since his rookie year in 1993, I think it's clear that the talent level in MLB is out of this world.

Did it ever occur to you that Matsui is just beginning to get adjusted to a new culture, environment, language, and new style of baseball? Give the guy a break. If you think that Matsui's .250 batting average right now is a sign that the MLB's talent level is way above the Japanese talent level, all we have to do is wait to see his stats at the end of the year to prove you wrong.

I hate to repeat myself, but give me a break. I know that Matsui has to adjust to a new culture, environment, language, yada, yada, yada... but come on, let's face facts here. The major leagues is the better league by far.

I want Matsui to do well, but let's face it, he won't hit 50 HRs in the big leagues like he did here.

Same goes for Ichiro. He'll never hit higher than .370 in the big leagues.

The major leagues is so specialized now that you have pitchers who get paid millions just to pitch in middle relief. That's why no one will ever hit .400 again and that's why no one will ever eclipse Joe DiMaggio's 56-game hitting streak.

I don't totally disagree with you - I'm sure Matsui will have decent stats at the end of the year, but if you think he'll dominate MLB like he dominated NPB, you've got another thing coming.

If you don't believe me, just take a look at Irabu. He couldn't get anybody out over in the big leagues, yet he comes back here and he's pitching well again.

That's why a rag-tag group of AAA players and MLB has-beens can win the gold medal for the U.S. in the Olympics.

The list of players who played well here but couldn't do anything in the U.S. goes on and on. So Taguchi will never be a starter in the major leagues. Dragons' catcher Tanishige was politely told to give up his dream of playing in the bigs when he tried to go there last season.

I'm Japanese and I'm proud of my fellow countrymen, so I wish I could say that NPB is almost as good as MLB, but I'm afraid I can't.

You assume too much. Did you ever think Ichiro will become the rookie of the year, MVP, and lead the Mariner's to 110+ wins in his first year? You never know what's going to happen.

I agree that there's a difference in the level of play between NPB and MLB, but using Matsui's first month in the majors as proof that NPB isn't above AAA is just plain silly. The baseball season is a marathon, not a sprint.

Some of your other examples are off-base as well. For instance, So Taguchi was a lifetime .277/.333/.387 hitter in Japan. If that's doing well, I'd hate to see what doing badly is. And the 2000 U.S. Olympic team wasn't just a collection of rag-tag AAA players and MLB has-beens; that rotation was anchored by Ben Sheets, Roy Oswalt, C.C. Sabathia, and Kurt Ainsworth. If you don't know who they are, you probably shouldn't be commenting on the potential of that team.

Before you make any more off-the-cuff observations or draw additional questionable conclusions, I suggest you read Clay Davenport's research [Baseball Prospectus] on the topic.

1908, you make some good points. However, let me set the record straight. I like NPB, I enjoy watching it, and I'm not trying to disparage the talent level of NPB. I am merely trying to point out that the major leagues are far better talent-wise than NPB. OK, so maybe it might be above AAA. That is open to debate. It's hard to say one way or the other since we've never played in all three leagues.

But by looking at Japanese players and how they fared in MLB, I think it's obvious that the talent in the majors is incredible and it's better than the talent in NPB.

If NPB was close to MLB in the level of play, then MLB would no longer consider NPB crossover players "rookies." When there was debate back in 1995 about Hideo Nomo's eligibility to win the ROY award, Reggie Smith said on ESPN, "If you're coming from a league that isn't as good as the majors, and I know that Japanese baseball isn't as good as the majors since I played there, then you should be considered a rookie."

About the 2000 U.S. Olympic team: the names you mentioned are impressive and I was wrong in calling the AAA players "rag-tag." But those pitchers that you mentioned were still green back then and hadn't had a whole lot of major league experience. Of course, now some of them are good, but back then they were AAA prospects and not bona-fide major leaguers. Chris George of the Royals was also on that team and now he's 4-2 for KC I think, but back in 2000, relatively speaking, they were hardly what you would call a dream team of U.S. players.

I wasn't just referring to Matsui's first month either. Ichiro has been hitting less than .300 since the second half of last season. He was great in his rookie year and he put up good numbers last season, but after what he did his rookie year, it was safe to assume that he would only get better and better. However, it looks like major league pitchers have figured out how to pitch to him, something pitchers in Japan never learned to do.

- I am merely trying to point out that the major leagues are far better talent-wise than NPB.

How much better is far better? If you had read Clay Davenport's research, you'd have seen that NPB's level of play is between AAA and MLB, leaning closer to the latter than the former. If that's what you mean by far better, than I agree.

- OK, so maybe it might be above AAA. That is open to debate. It's hard to say one way or the other since we've never played in all three leagues.

Suggesting that only people who have played in all three leagues can know the answer is specious. You haven't played in both NBP and MLB but you have no problems claiming that MLB is vastly superior. What's the difference?

- But by looking at Japanese players and how they fared in MLB, I think it's obvious that the talent in the majors is incredible and it's better than the talent in NPB.

Well, it's hard to quantify incredible, but I agree that there's more talent in MLB than NBP. That said, every Japanese superstar that has come to play in North America so far has won the ROY award. That's fairing pretty well, in my opinion.

- If NPB was close to MLB in the level of play, then MLB would no longer consider NPB crossover players "rookies."

Another specious argument. Despite playing against major-league level competition for years in the Negro Leagues, Jackie Robinson was considered a "rookie" in 1947, as was every black player that followed in his footsteps. They won because that's the way the rule book is written.

- I wasn't just referring to Matsui's first month either. Ichiro has been hitting less than .300 since the second half of last season. He was great in his rookie year and he put up good numbers last season, but after what he did his rookie year, it was safe to assume that he would only get better and better. However, it looks like major league pitchers have figured out how to pitch to him, something pitchers in Japan never learned to do.

Just like it wasn't safe to assume that Ichiro would only improve upon his rookie season, it's also not safe to assume that major league pitchers have figured out how to pitch to him. Baseball is a game of adjustments. Give Matsui a full season at least and wait to see if Ichiro adjusts (he looked pretty good against Colon last night) before you jump to conclusions.

Just thought I'd like to point a few things out here.

I don't know if it's fair to compare NPB to AAA or the North American minor leagues. AAA players are competing for jobs in the big leagues, but Japanese players are only competing for wins. So I think it's a bit a different.

Four or five years ago, the Cubs called up Kerry Wood from AAA, where he had an ERA in excess of 4.00. People wondered if he was really ready, and he answered them by striking out 20 Houston Astros. Turns out he was working on an off-speed pitch, as his fastball was good enough.

This wouldn't happen in Japan, you can assume guys are giving their best every game, as they are at the highest level here.

Also, no one has mentioned Tomo Ohka, who has become a decent mid-rotation pitcher in Montreal after barely scratching the surface of Yokohama's ichi-gun team. His talent level wasn't enough for NPB, but he's doing okay for the Expos.

So I agree that MLB generally has a higher level of talent than NPB, but I would suggest the that the differences between the two leagues goes beyond that. I hope in the future, we can talk about those differences, instead of which one is better.

You cannot compare Kobe Brynat to Derrek Lee. Also, no one will know how Leon would have done if he had gone back to MLB. Prejudice against NPB existed in the MLB back in the 1970's until big daddy Cecil broke the rule that players who played in NPB can be successful back in the States.

I don't think Null-san's assumption is out of whack. Although I agree with you about Leon's linguistic abilities.

Leon does speak Japanese and his brother Leron, was the one who married a Japanese lady. Rick.

I'm personally not convinced that either Lee brother would have been a star in MLB. Leron only had an okay career there when he decided to go to Japan. The level of play in Japanese ball at that time may have been even below AAA. That doesn't mean that there weren't Japanese players who couldn't have succeeded in MLB. There certainly were. Ken Boyer thought Shigeo Nagashima, even as a rookie, could have been a good MLB ballplayer. Tommy Lasorda said that he believes Masaichi Kaneda would have been a star in MLB, as would Oh.

But on the other hand, when not just Johnny Bench wrecks Japanese pitching on an MLB tour, but Champ bleeding Summers does, too, then that should tell you something. But over the last ten years, we have seen a drastic improvement in the quality of play in Japan and now the two leagues are relatively close.

As for the Olympics, Japan didn't exactly send its top players, either. Sure, you had Norihiro Nakamura and Nobuhiko Matsunaka to go along with Daisuke Matsuzaka, but then you had a bunch of guys from the industrial leagues, plus the likes of, iirc, Kensuke and Yukio Tanaka, hardly two guys who are anybody's idea of real danger at the plate, and Taguchi. You also have to keep in mind that Ernie Young was the cleanup hitter on that U.S. team and he didn't hit even his wife's weight with Yokohama.

As for Matsui and his recent slump, well, there are two things that I've observed about the guy: one, he is not a ball of fire out of the gate. When the weather begins warming up, he begins to plug away and raise his batting average. He is looking a lot more solid against MLB pitching this year than he did in 2000 (I'm not going to count 2002 because he was obviously trying to muscle up to please the home folks), when he embarrassed himself at times at the plate.

While my gut still tells me to be skeptical, he could well end up driving in over 100 runs. I hope he does. So let's not be hasty here. Look at Giambi and Matsui and you tell me who has been a stiff the early part of the season. One good week right now and Matsui would be back over .300.

Mr. Garland, thank you for pointing things out without jumping all over me like 1908. That doesn't mean I don't like discussing this matter with him though. I think that's what makes sports great - the fact that you can argue over and over about how good someone or something is or how bad someone or something is.

One thing I would like to point out is that what convinced me that MLB is a lot better than NPB is the fact that sluggers who fared well here in Japan have not fared as well in the big leagues.

I still remember back in '93 when the Japanese media followed Orestes Destrade around thinking he was going to tear up NL pitching only to have him fall far below expectations. I'm not saying that Matsui will end up like Destrade, but you never know.

In the early to mid-'80s Terry Whitfield put up big numbers in the Pacific League as a member of the Lions only to become a benchwarmer for the LA Dodgers.

Sure, I have never played professionally, but not only have I heard ex-players like Reggie Smith talk about both leagues in interviews, but I have also talked to a number of ex-players who all told me that most of the Japanese players in NPB couldn't cut it in MLB.

Shinjo was an everyday player here who put up decent numbers with Hanshin, but I've been told that if it hadn't been for expansion by MLB in the '90s (4 new teams), he would be in AAA, and I don't doubt it.

I know that people are going to point of Cecil Fielder and his success, but I think that he was an aberration, a bona-fide slugger with major league talent who slipped through the cracks. When asked about his lack of success compared to Fielder, Destrade was quoted as saying, "Everyone wanted to compare us, but Cecil was in a completely different situation. First of all, he had only been away for 1 season while I had been gone 4 years, and second of all, he played in a great hitter's park while I played in one of the toughest stadiums to hit homers. But I don't want to take anything away from him. Cecil is a great, great hitter." It sounded like sour grapes to me. I think Destrade should've just admitted that maybe NPB success doesn't always translate into MLB success instead of making excuses.

Mr. Garland makes a good point about how the quality of play in Japan has drastically improved in the last ten years or so. I wholeheartedly agree. Matsui will probably become a decent power hitter in the U.S. But if anyone thinks that Matsui will hit 50 HRs in MLB like he did in Japan, then they're in for a rude awakening.

This discussion had run its course in my mind but I just couldn't let this one slide:

- Shinjo was an everyday player here who put up decent numbers with Hanshin, but I've been told that if it hadn't been for expansion by MLB in the '90s (4 new teams), he would be in AAA, and I don't doubt it.

Shinjo hit .249/.307/.422 across his career with the Tigers, and he's hit .253/.308/.388 in MLB -- a whopping difference of 32 points in OPS.

I don't mean to "jump all over you" but a little research goes a long way.

Shinjo looked good yesterday. 3 hits in 4 at bats, bringing his average to something like .250 (I think).

In a post-game interview (excerpts of which were shown on NHK) Shinjo said that he got his first two hits with the same bat. In his third trip to the plate, he decided to use a different bat so he could see if it was the bat or his skill that was getting him all the hits.

Said Shinjo, "I got the third hit with a different bat, so that meant it was all thanks to my skills, and not the bat." (Laughter from press hacks.) "If I'd got that 4th hit (fly to center), I'd have made the starting line-up for tomorrow."

I forgot to mention a few things. PL Nara-san makes a good point about Tomo Ohka. I think that's a good observation, although I'm a bit curious as to why Yokohama kept him down on the farm team for most of his career here.

He is known as a feisty guy with a bad temper and the fact that he kept talking about going to the major leagues probably did not do him any favors. He was, after all, known as "Major Ohka" when he played here in Japan.

Also, we've all seen footage of him going ballistic in the dugout when he was removed from a game in the 3rd inning by Jimy Williams as a member of the Red Sox, and we've all heard about his fight with team mate Sun-Woo Kim when they played for Pawtucket.

His attitude might have played a part in him being stuck at ni-gun with the BayStars. After all, the nail that sticks out must be hammered down.

P.S. Rick-san, Leon and Leron don't speak much Japanese. Granted they speak more Japanese than Warren Cromartie, but they don't speak it well enough to be considered fluent. Tuffy Rhodes is sort of close to fluent and Brad Lesley is fluent, but Leon and Leron aren't.

I admire null so much, that would be a right attitude for us.

Japan is getting better and better, but not at the top. Like soccer, there are few stars compared to EU and Brazil.

In Baseball, Ichiro, Matsui, Little Matsui, Nomo, anyone else? Majors have a lot players like them.

Something missing in this, which Gary Garland touched on, is the context of time. Leon Lee played in the early-mid 1980s. 20 years ago. NPB was far below AAA then. Today, as in MLB, players in Japan are stronger, faster, more developed.

I'm no expert, but I do believe that Leon couldn't hack it in MLB back then, but did well in NPB is a reflection of the times. Derrick Lee, on the other hand, is having a decent year and is very young.

Also, back in the '80s, most MLBers to come to Japan were past their primes, so comparing their careers here to their MLB careers is apples and oranges.

On the other hand, mediocre players are mediocre players, wherever they play. Shinjo was flashy, but lousy here, and is the same in MLB. Deivi Cruz could come to Japan and still barely hit his weight.

Everyone is saying that the level of baseball played in NPB 20 years ago was poor. Maybe overall, but in terms of great players, I disagree. Watching Japanese ball for 35 years, the level of play by the top performers back then were truely fantastic. Also, I think the level of play in MLB has declined over the years due to dilution of players. Especially pitching.

Really, when you look at the performance of major leaguers in Japan versus the majors, there is an improvement in recent times, but not a tremendous one. The conversion factors for the Central League, 1960-80 are:

Hits:  0.904
2B:    0.829
3B:    2.149
HR:    0.533
BB:    1.148

This comes from my research on Oh, and eliminates the Korakuen stadium adjustment for HR.

Now, for all players in the majors and NPB 1992-2002, the factors are:

Hits:  0.932
2B:    0.980
3B:    1.577
HR:    0.604
BB:    0.805

Let's put them side by side for easier comparison:

      60-80 CL  92-2002
Hits:  0.904     0.932
2B:    0.829     0.980
3B:    2.149     1.577
HR:    0.533     0.604
BB:    1.148     0.805

If the adjustment is smaller, that means more hits (doubles, HR, whatever) would be taken away from the player by a move to the majors. One thing to note is the change in the walk adjustment, which may have something to do with how gaijin did on ball-strike calls back between 1960-80. The triples difference has become more like the majors, likely due to the larger parks of today. Otherwise, the modern NPB player is closer to the majors than he was in the 1960-80 CL.

Just thought it might help to try and quantify the difference between the past and today.

Jim Albright

For a country like Japan that has been playing baseball for over 100 years, you would think that not just a few, but many Japanese players could compete on the Major League level, and they do. In fact, when Sawamura faced the touring All-Star team of 1934, Major League teams (can't remember which ones) expressed interest in signing him. I think that just as when blacks starting coming into baseball (1947) and hispanics, they showed all different levels: You had the superstars, mid-level players, and the ones who barely made a roster.

I personally like the Japanese leagues, they play harder, complain less, have more loyalty, and are all around more fun to watch and attend a game as a fan than MLB. I would rather see guys go all out, play hard, than some overpaid MLB player non-chalant his way to 1st base.

All in all, are the Major Leagues above the Japanese leagues? Of course. But which is more exciting to watch? Which league's players play harder? You tell me.

Ogasawara, Nakamura, and many more. We know about the players you named, but there may be more. What if Japanese Leagues are disorganized like the Latin American League, and all Japanese player elect to try out for the Majors? We will no doubt see many more Japanese players who might even do better in the Majors like Ohka. The problem is that NPB is too well organized and lucrative for most players to leave.

NPB will never be at the same talent level as MLB because of its' racist/nationalist talent policy.

If an NPB team had players from the U.S., Dominican Republic, Venezuela, Cuba, Australia, and Canada as well as Japan, then NPB would have talent parity with the majors.

However, if NPB teams took only the best talent they could, regardless of race or nationality, then the average Japanese team might only have between five to fifteen Japanese people on it. But those players would be good enough to excel on the Tokyo Giants or the San Francisco Giants.

If MLB only allowed American players, then the talent level would be significantly lower, possibly lower than NPB. It's players like Miguel Tejada, Alfonso Soriano, Ichiro Suzuki, Sammy Sosa, and Hideo Nomo that make MLB the best baseball in the world. If Japan would drop the "3 foreigners per team" rule, then NPB would soon achieve parity with MLB, as long as NPB is willing to spend the money on contracts and international scouting.

Good point!