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Who is the best Gaijin ever?

Discussion in the Ask the Commish forum
Who is the best Gaijin ever?
Based on individual record and accomplishment, most people probably will say the best ever Gaijin was either Randy Bass of the Hanshin Tigers or Bobby Rose of the Yokohama Baystars. They both had great records and contributed in winning the Japan Series in their respective teams.

But my choice for the best ever goes to Charlie Manuel of the Yakult Swallows and Kintetsu Buffaloes. ...

Manuel is currently the manager of the successful Cleveland Indians club. Manuel almost singlehandedly won Japan championship for Yakult (1978) and two Pacific League pennants for Kintetsu (1979, 1980). The amazing thing is that both teams were perennial doormats in NPB up to that point. Both Bass and Rose had great supporting casts, especially Bass who had Okada, Kakefu, Mayumi, etc. but Charlie Manuel almost did it by himself. But the most impressive episode about him was while playing for the Buffaloes, Manuel fractured his jaw when he was beaned in the face but came back wearing a football helmet. This incidence really won the Japanese people's respect. He was a truely a great baseball hero back then.

For your reference:

ALL TIME GAIJIN HR LEADERS

Leron Lee (Lotte Orions)283
Greg "Boomer" Wells (Hankyu Braves)277
Leon Lee (Lotte Orions)268
Ralph Bryant (Kintetsu Buffaloes)259
Clarence Jones (Kintetsu Buffaloes)246
Roberto Marcano (Hankyu Braves)232
John Sipin (Taiyo Whales, Yomiuri Giants)218
George Altman (Lotte Orions, Hanshin Tigers)205
Randy Bass (Hanshin Tigers)202
Gene Martin (Chunichi Dragons, Taiyo Whales)189
Charlie Manuel (Yakult Swallows, Kintetsu Buffaloes)189
Dave Roberts (Yakult Atoms)183
Warren Cromartie (Yomiuri Giants)171
Robert Rose (Yokohama Baystars)167
Jim Lyttle (Hiroshima Carp)161

[by Westbaystars: Combine this with the excellent commentary by an annonymous reader and I think we have an excellent poll. Who was the best sukettor? (Cromartie translated that to mean "migrant worker" while it litterally means "helper.")]

Comments
Cromartie and Rose and....
[ Author: Guest | Posted: Jul 10, 2001 3:49 PM ]

You make a good case for Manuel, but when it comes to all around play on both sides of the ball I don't see how you get past Rose and Warren Cromartie purely from a player standpoint. As we're seeing this season, Rose was a lot more valuable to Yokohama than Cro was to Yomiuri (and that point in itself is debatable). Both are very very good defensive players with above average speed whereas Wells, Bass, Manuel and and the Lees were okay at best defensively but couldn't run much.

Also, while we're addressing gaijin players regardless of position, how about Victor Starfin, a Russian emigre who went on to win 303 games and became the first hurler to win more than 30 games (the first time he won 40 in fact) in Japanese baseball history? He was also the first gaijin to be inducted into Japan's Baseball Hall of Fame. And Wally Yonamine, a Japanese-American? Another early great.

And if you'll indulge me in a bit of off the wall speculation, Bass may forever haunt the Hanshin Tigers in the same way that the Japanese naval victory at Tsushima Strait over the Russian fleet haunted Japan's military in World War II. The Japanese, during that conflict, were always looking for a Tsushima-style decisive faceoff that would determine ultimate victory in an afternoon. The Hanshin Tigers are always on the lookout for a magic gaijin to be the new Bass (look at the hype over Ivan Cruz in the pre-season as an illustration). As has been pointed out, there is no silver bullet gaijin that will put you in the Japan Series since you need the supporting cast to help things along. Hanshin needs to worry more about player development at home and not look for some gaijin to be their savior who will make up for the club's obvious shortcomings. Getting the "new Bass" won't help (Seibu with Cabrera anyone?) unless you have a Kakefu or a Mayumi or an Okada to keep things rolling.

Yonamine and Starffin
[ Author: Guest | Posted: Jul 10, 2001 4:58 PM ]

I do agree with your assessment of Manuel and Bass being a poor defensive player and I do believe Bobby Rose is one of the 5 best suketto ever. But I think that Manuel's impact on Japanese baseball as a "suketto" is matched only by Randy Bass and maybe Daryl Spencer of the Hankyu Braves. Yonamine and Starffin were indeed great players. In fact they probably belong to the all time great NPB ballplayers. However, I must say that they don't qualify as suketto since they both did not play within the "gaijin quota" which was created about a decade after the war. If you start qualifying these players, you must qualify Sadaharu Oh as a foreigner since he carries a Taiwanese passport. Maybe even 3000+ basehitman Isao Harimoto and 400-win pitcher Shoichi Kaneda who were Koreans living in Japan. In fact, Isao harimoto was denied treatment by a physician when he was a child in Osaka simply because he was a Korean. Victor Starrfin grew up in Japan, attented Asahikawa High School in Hokkaido and even changed his name to "Hiroshi Suda" during the war since foreign language was banned in baseball as well as all aspects of Japanese life during that unfortunate era. There were actually a number of foreign born players in pre-war Japan. Shosei Go of Taiwan (Japanese colony at that time), a swift-footed Hall-of-Fame center fielder for the Yomiuri Giants was one of the all time great player. Bucky Harris was another great player. Yonamine was a Japanese-American who qualified as Japanese by the Yomiuri Giants who joined the team in 1951 after a stint with SF Seals (Pacific Coast League) and the SF 49ers (football). Yomiuri Giants did not employ any "formal" suketto until 1975 when Nagashima kantoku hired Davey Johnson (Former Baltimore Orioles and Atlanta Braves). Actually, they didn't need any since they had the great "ON".

My 5 best Suketto (based on his impact on their team's success):
Charlie Manuel
Randy Bass
Bobby Rose
Daryl Spencer
Orestes Destrade
Pitchers
[ Author: westbaystars | Posted: Jul 11, 2001 3:04 AM | YBS Fan ]

The first Bench-Boy makes a good point with Starfin, that pitchers aren't represented. Do all teams suffer from the ghost of Bass? It seems to me that Cromartie's book started off talking about him being the Giants' mesiah, there to deliver them to the promised land.

As Chiba-san wrote a few weeks ago in Shukan Baseball, one can win the division with mediocre hitting and great pitching, but not the other way around (although the Giants are trying to disprove that theory this year). So are teams really focusing their attention where it isn't really necessary? And like finding a second Bass or Boomer, where it isn't likely to meet expectations?

And with the second Bench-Boy's "impact" case, I would expect Cromartie to be in there as well. He was great at getting the crowd going with his "banzai, banzai, banzai" to the right/center field stands.

Rose wasn't a specticle like Cromartie. Very much the opposite, in fact, never show boating around the bases or to the crowd. But his play sparkled brighter than pretty much any other player I've seen on the diamond. The radio announcers never tired of talking about his great snap throws to get runners out that no other player could get. When he was tagged with an error, the announcers would often dispute it, pointing out that nobody else would have gotten close enough to even bobble the ball, so it would have been a hit with anyone else.

With all the emphisis on home runs that most teams seem to put into evaluating suketto, Rose was a fabulous exception.

One more note, though. It's pretty easy to judge the more recent players that many of us have seen play, but much more difficult to compare them to legends like Manuel, Spencer, or even Starfin. Even comparing stats doesn't cut it as 30 home runs could win a home run title one year and 40 may not even make the top 5 in another. I'm reading Fitts-san's Japanese Baseball Superstars right now, and learning a lot about players that I'd only seen before in the all time rankings. Starfin is in there, but I don't see any other suketto.

Lee Bros.
[ Author: moto-dynamitedasen | Posted: Jul 13, 2001 1:58 AM ]

One of the greates secrets of NPB is Leron Lee. As far as I know he has the 2nd best life time average in Japan after Ichiro. He is also one of the few Americans who assimilated to the Japanese culture, marrying a Japanese and played in Japan for a long time. ( 10, 11 seasons? could someone help me here?) I am very pleased to see that he is on the list.

Leon Lee is my alltime favorite NPB player. (Although I've always been a Hanshin fan growing up in Yokohama.) I remember him coming to our school (YIS) to pick up his children, and he always had time to play baseball, kickball, discuss baseball with us. He would never ever lose his temper in anyway, always humble, and friendly. Not only was he a serious power hitter, but what makes him one of the great ball players of all time was his personlality. He would never complain to the umpires, even at times when he had right to do so. He let the game do the talking. One of his goals was to hit the organist in left field bleachers. He never hit the organ booth but he did manage to shatter the billboard in center field below the score board!
Re: Lee Bros.
[ Author: Guest: Marty Schaefer | Posted: May 4, 2002 5:58 PM ]

Leron Lee is a very good friend of mine, have known him for years. Yes, you are correct, Leron embraced himself to the Japanese culture and professional baseball in Japan. His Japanese wife, Vicki and their two daughters now reside in Northern California. Leron was truly a "legend" throughout his career in Japanese baseball and has a special fondness for Japan and the culture
Greenwell Fan
[ Author: westbaystars | Posted: Jul 16, 2001 5:59 PM | YBS Fan ]

Oh, boy, we've got a couple of Greenwell fans!  Anti-Hanshin fans, are we?  Or just itazurakko?
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