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NPB Free Agency

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NPB Free Agency
Well, I think with these recent "attacks" on the forum, I'd like to start a discussion of sorts. So, I'd like to share thoughts and an experience on this subject and get yours, too.

Last Sunday, I went to the BayStars/Giants game (and got really sunburned, too, btw). As I was heading to find a seat in the Non-Reserved seat area, I noticed Marc Kroon jogging near the right field stands. I also noticed many of my Japanese baseball friends booing him, which of course came as no surprise to me. But then I heard one of my friends (who can't speak a word of English) say "F U" to Marc and Marc became visibly upset and began screaming back at them. His translator then came over and they walked away.

I then confronted my friend and asked him why he said what he said. He gave me the usual rant about how he hates the Giants and how he feels betrayed because Marc signed with the "evil empire" so to speak.

So it got me to thinking about why Japanese fans boo players who "sell out." And IMO, it's because loyalty is a big part of the culture. People work at the same company their whole lives then retire. I think the same goes for baseball as people expect players to do the same.


Sorry for the "rant," but I just wanted to get my thoughts out there and start a discussion.
Comments
Re: NPB Free Agency
[ Author: Guest: Number 26 | Posted: Jul 25, 2008 10:50 PM ]

Kroon is a sell out for going to the Giants. End of story. If I was a Yokohama fan I would look at him as someone who sold out on his team, but I would also be mad at the team for not being able to hold on to Kroon.

What surprises me is that Kroon yelled back. He should have just brushed it off like most players do when there are hecklers in the stands. By yelling back the fans get the upper hand. If he was jogging in front of the die hard fans in Yokohama he should expect some abuse. Yokohama Stadium does not have a fence which separates the stands and the field, so I would be careful coming with verbal abuse to big players who are known to have a short fuse though. Hehe.
Re: NPB Free Agency
[ Author: Guest | Posted: Jul 26, 2008 2:16 AM ]

Hey guys, I am a BayStars fan and a huge fan of Marc Kroon. I said before the season started he was the player Yokohama would miss most in terms of his versatility and ability to shut down opponents.

I for one would welcome Kroon back anytime, even after having an "affair" with the "Evil Empire." He was underrated and under appreciated by the BayStars' front office. I mean when playing for "us" he was the go to guy whenever the BayStars where in a pickle. So not only did he save tons of games for us stat-wise, he saved games by coming in early and stopping opponents when they rallied. Something we haven't been able to do this year, and I think all the pitchers on our staff have had an opportunity to "stop the bleeding," but failed.

I point this out because now he's doing it for the Giants and we fans hate that. We call him a traitor when we should be blaming the front office. If they had only given him a couple more years on his contract he would be wearing "our" uniform.

All Marc was looking for was a bit of security, and after all he did for our team, I think he deserved it. He gets no respect, although he was a top closer year in and year out; this allowed for him to be ripped out of our grasp.

I believe Marc is a BayStars at heart, because he was given his opportunity there, and he shined! So I put all the blame on Yokohama's front office for his departure and hope some way, some how he comes back "home." He is not a traitor! He is one of the best bullpen pitchers in NPB; and in my opinion I don't blame the Giants for signing him either; I think all 12 teams were after him.
Re: NPB Free Agency
[ Author: westbaystars | Posted: Jul 26, 2008 10:30 AM | YBS Fan ]

As a BayStar fan myself, I have a slightly different take on the whole "Kroon is a traitor" affair.

I disagree with those who call him a traitor. The Giants matched the BayStars' offer, the only difference was that the two years were guaranteed, whereas the second year was optional with Yokohama in control of picking up the option or not. The money was the same, so it wasn't about greed, just security.

However, I did (and do) agree with the BayStars' front office on this one. In hind sight, it may look bad. But the frequency that Kroon stumbled on the mound at the end of last season had me seriously worried about whether his left knee would hold out or not for another full year.

The BayStars were simply showing good financial responsibility. You don't gamble with what you can't afford. Whereas the Giants can afford to eat 3-oku yen on a player not playing, the BayStars cannot. And with the question marks surrounding Kroon's knee at the end of last season, the risk was simply too great. The BayStars' front office has made a lot of mistakes in the past, but it was the prudent one in this case.

Unfortunately, not many fans paid attention to the negotiations. Yokohama's PR team didn't explain the whys and what fors. The raw information was all in the press, but not using these words. So the fans only see yet another big name foreign player going to the Giants for a huge pay raise (despite it being the same pay raise offered by his former team). How does one get that through to the fan that doesn't read much past the sensationalist headlines?
Re: NPB Free Agency
[ Author: Christopher | Posted: Jul 26, 2008 11:20 AM | HAN Fan ]

Tigers fans are much worse for abusing players. Most Tigers players are well aware of this and behave themselves. That being said Okada has lost his temper with Tigers fans before and we must not be too hard on Kroon for this.

Let us consider that the BayStars may want to win a pennant or advance to the Climax Series. If they want to do this they need more talent than they have now and they need to retain it. If they wish to get and retain talent they need to spend money on it at the going market rate or offer conditions which are market conditions. If the owners just wish to use the team as a marketing vehicle then refusing to give Kroon two years is OK.

Now with a good team which has the chance of a pennant, you have much more scope for making profits and generating income. If the BayStars are strong this translates into more income from TV, merchandising, and advertising. The team might even make a profit. But for this they need to retain talented players and you have to be prepared to spend money.

The failure to offer Kroon a guaranteed contract was a false economy. The front office thought that they could save money if (and this is only an if) he was not fit in his second year. They ended up saving the costs of his contract but at the expense of a bottom place finish.

You have to spend money to make money. The BayStars are now at the bottom of the league and will lose a huge amount on the season. By all means a team should cut out the expensive non performing players, but if it wants to win it shouldn't cut out the expensive performing players. The top teams in the Pacific and Central Leagues understand this. To be successful you pay the going rate. Success brings the extra income, but to become successful you need to spend.
Re: NPB Free Agency
[ Author: number9 | Posted: Jul 26, 2008 1:37 PM ]

Pretty much the same thing with Alex Ramirez. His superficial numbers (HR, RBI, AVG) looked decent to good every year, but his OBP and SLG had been in constant decline since they peaked in his third year (it's now his 8th year in Japan). The Giants could financially afford to gamble on Ramirez and/or don't do any in depth statistical analysis (well, OBP and SLG are just one layer deeper than conventional stats). But signing Rami-chan has paid off huge for the Giants so far. I'm sure short power alleys of Tokyo Dome help too.
Re: NPB Free Agency
[ Author: number9 | Posted: Jul 26, 2008 1:38 PM ]

... so 2007 looked more like an exception than return to form from his trends, that's what I meant to write because he did have a tremendous 2007 as well.
Re: NPB Free Agency
[ Author: No.1BayFan | Posted: Jul 26, 2008 11:26 AM | YOK Fan ]

Well, Marc posted on his site that he's going to come out and tell the whole story of why he did not return to the BayStars.

Cyphre, I agree with you. But I'll admit, when Kroon got his first save against Yokohama this year, I booed him. Then, I realized that I was booing one of my heroes and a guy that took time out of his day to chat with me at all those games I went to last year and I totally lost it. So, I took it upon myself to apologize to him at the next game I saw him at. I realized that he did nothing wrong. I guess I'm becoming more and more like the Japanese fans.

The fact is, he gave everything to Yokohama (he even pitched hurt last year). Our bullpen is in shambles this year and a big part of it is because Marc is no longer with us, IMO.

If Marc had gone to any other team (with the exception of the Tigers and Dragons) he would still be cheered in Yokohama. But since he went to one of the only teams that actually uses free agency in NPB, he's destined to get booed forever.

Westbay, seeing Kroon hurt last year had me worried, too. And from a conversation I had with Kroon's manager last year, that was also a concern for the team. And I knew that was going to be a sticking point in negotiations. But when they did next to nothing to replace Kroon (and our pitching staff in general), that upset me. It's like they signed a few new American pitchers to cheap contracts to fill the holes in our staff, and when they didn't pan out, they were stuck. They should've been more diligent in finding suitable replacements, and that's what gets me the most.
Re: NPB Free Agency
[ Author: Guest: Number 26 | Posted: Jul 27, 2008 3:09 AM ]

Here is Akahoshi losing his temper towards a fan.
Re: NPB Free Agency
[ Author: Guest | Posted: Jul 27, 2008 9:45 AM ]

Westbay-san, I totally agree with Marc looking for security in his contract, and I understand why the front office would be hesitant to sign him after the end of last season.

That said, sometimes you need to take risk and Kroon would have been a good one, because of what he did in his years there. His numbers got better each year and last year he played hurt. He would have played his heart out as usual (reason for me being his fan). I just hope someone in the Yokohama front office is paying attention to his performance this year. 40+ IP, 65 K's (that's ridiculous), 1.34 ERA (lights out), has allowed 24 hits including only 3 doubles (0 triples and 0 HR). I sure would hate to be the person that let him go. Those numbers are even a better performance than his previous season and would have made a huge difference to where the BayStars stand today. We would have been talking about playoffs, perhaps.
Re: NPB Free Agency
[ Author: PLNara | Posted: Jul 27, 2008 11:47 AM | HT Fan ]

I don't think that type of behavior is unique to Japanese culture. Oakland A's fans boo and heckle Jason Giambi every time he comes to the plate. It wasn't quite as intense last year, but he still gets booed.
Re: NPB Free Agency
[ Author: No.1BayFan | Posted: Jul 29, 2008 11:16 AM | YOK Fan ]

No, it isn't that you're right, but when many fans think that Free Agency is nothing more than a tool that only benefits Yomiuri, Hanshin, and basically high revenue clubs, then that's a problem. The same goes for MLB in many regards also.

As a fan, I want to see fair play on all levels, and I want to see each team get a fair shot. As I said earlier, loyalty is a big part of Japanese culture, and I believe that the teams should be signing their stars to long term deals. And also, the fans want to see players play their entire careers with the same team (like Ishii Takuro for example). It's a special thing when you get to see a player develop into a star from his rookie year and then retire with the same team.

As Christopher said earlier, "You have to spend money to make money." It seems that fans of the "bottom 3" in the Central League, as I call them, are resigned to think that their teams are too poor to sign free agents, which I don't believe. IMO, things need to be re-evaluated when it comes to Free Agency in NPB.
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