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Woods/Arias/Petagine

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Woods/Arias/Petagine
I'm wondering what everyone thinks in regards to the movement of Woods/Arias of Hanshin and possibly Petagine. I think Woods will end up in a Tigers uniform, Petagine will go back to Yakult, and Arias will join a Pa-League team (possibly the new one).

Anybody hear anything about these three or the other gaikokujin free agents?
Comments
Re: Woods/Arias/Petagine
[ Author: torakichi | Posted: Nov 2, 2004 9:34 AM | HT Fan ]

SanSpo reported that, although the official announcement has not been made yet, Hanshin's Okada-kantoku has spoken on-the-record with press about Arias's impending release.

Meanwhile, Hanshin's strategy for acquiring foreign players seems to focus on players already in Japan that have gotten used to playing here. Woods has already been discussed (wouldn't his joining Hanshin make him "Tiger Woods"?), and it appears the Tigers are also after Greg LaRocca and Kevin Beirne.
Re: Woods/Arias/Petagine
[ Author: Guest: Tigers Baka | Posted: Nov 3, 2004 12:07 AM ]

- [...] wouldn't his joining Hanshin make him "Tiger Woods"

Heh heh, nice one Torakichi. Never thought of that! It seems as though Woods is their number one priority and they are the highest bidder so far.

I can see the logic of going for someone playing locally rather than bringing in another import after the Kinkade debacle!
Re: Tigers' Suketto Strategy
[ Author: torakichi | Posted: Nov 3, 2004 12:29 PM | HT Fan ]

Over the past few seasons, Hanshin's acquisition of suketto directly from overseas has been notoriously bad (with exceptions like Jeff Williams, Trey Moore, and Greg Hansell). Derrick White, Mica Franklin, Jason Hardtke, Ivan Cruz, Eduardo Peres, Trey Hodges., ...

On the other hand, the most recent example of picking up a foreign player from another Japanese team was George Arias, who hit an average of just over 30 HRs a season in his three years with the Tigers and helped the team take the Ce-League pennant in 2003.

The team's latest strategy seems sound.
Re: Tigers' Suketto Strategy
[ Author: PLNara | Posted: Nov 5, 2004 5:53 AM | HT Fan ]

- Over the past few seasons, Hanshin's acquisition of suketto directly from overseas has been notoriously bad (with exceptions like Jeff Williams, Trey Moore, and Greg Hansell). Derrick White, Mica Franklin, Jason Hardtke, Ivan Cruz, Eduardo Peres, Trey Hodges., ...

Don't forget Lou Pote, Buddy Carlyle, Tony Tarasco, Rodney Myers, Mike Kinkade, ...

Any chance of Jerrod Riggan making a comeback?

- On the other hand, the most recent example of picking up a foreign player from another Japanese team [...].

The team's latest strategy seems sound.


I agree. A lineup with Woods and LaRocca should be strong enough to compete with the Giants.

Back to the original topic, I think Petagine is likely to remain with the Giants. Rakuten has expressed interest in Kiyohara, so that should be interesting. I think Hanshin will outbid Chunichi for Woods. Chunichi have said that they won't play "money games." As for Arias, he could wind up with Rakuten or Chunichi. Orix might be a possibility, too, but outside of those teams, I don't see too many openings at first base.
Re: Tigers' Suketto Strategy
[ Author: Guest: John Brooks | Posted: Nov 5, 2004 8:21 AM ]

- Any chance of Jerrod Riggan making a comeback?

It says in the thread "Hanshin Tigers Courting Hodges" that SanSpo said Riggan hopes to stay with Hanshin in 2005.
Re: Tigers' Suketto Strategy
[ Author: Jingu Bleacher Bum | Posted: Nov 5, 2004 9:02 AM | YAK Fan ]

I've been reading most of the on-line articles from the sports papers here, and there are definitely some wild rumors out there.

About the Chunichi-Hanshin bidding war over Woods, I read the rep from Hanshin (forgot the name) said he thought the price wouldn't go up to 100 million yen. But then a different article on Yahoo! Japan said that Chunichi was going to offer Woods a 2 year contract for 100 million yen. I also can't remember where, but I read that Woods would possibly favor Chunichi to be with his friend Domingo Guzman. (P.S. I like to call him Tryone "I can hit the ball further than Tiger" Woods, ala Chris Berman style.)

As for Petagine, I don't think Yakult will take him back unless they're desperate. Every time I go to a Yakult vs. Giants game, Petagine gets booed every time he comes up to bat. I'd love to see him go to Rakuten, or any other PL team so he'll stop doing a lot of damage at Jingu Stadium (he hit more home runs there than his home at Tokyo Dome, 10 at Jingu vs. 9 at TD). I think Yakult is putting priority on keeping current first baseman Ken Suzuki.

George Arias? I hate to see him leave the Tigers, but I read an article before he got officially released by the Tigers stating that he might go to play for the Giants. (Say it ain't so George.) Maybe he can learn the outfield and take Valdes' spot with the Daiei Hawks? Or maybe Bobby can lure him over to the Marines to give them a little more pop in the lineup.
Battle Over Woods
[ Author: Guest: steve | Posted: Nov 5, 2004 9:53 AM ]

I've heard the Guzman connection put out there, too. If you also throw in the fact that Chunichi has made statements to the effect of them going all out for Woods and the retirement of Linares, it's not gonna be settled for a while.

I know "Dragon Woods" doesn't have the same poetic ring as Tiger.
Re: Tigers' Suketto Strategy
[ Author: Guest: null | Posted: Nov 7, 2004 8:55 PM ]

- P.S. I like to call him Tryone "I can hit the ball further than Tiger" Woods, ala Chris Berman style.)

I hate to be nit-picky, but since you're referring to distance, I think it should be "farther" instead of "further." After all, the word "farther" is derived from the word "far."

Also, an earlier poster said that Hanshin has had bad luck in acquiring new foreigners and named names such as Micah Franklin. I believe Franklin was picked up by Hanshin after he had been with the Fighters.
Re: Tigers' Suketto Strategy
[ Author: torakichi | Posted: Nov 8, 2004 11:12 AM | HT Fan ]

- Also, an earlier poster said that Hanshin has had bad luck in acquiring new foreigners...

Well, more bad scouting than bad luck, but you get my drift.

- ...and named names such as Micah Franklin. I believe Franklin was picked up by Hanshin after he had been with the Fighters.

You're right (see his player page). I stand corrected.
Re: Tigers' Suketto Strategy
[ Author: mijow | Posted: Nov 5, 2004 9:07 PM | HT Fan ]

And don't forget the most notorious of all:

Mike Greenwell
Re: Tigers' Suketto Strategy
[ Author: torakichi | Posted: Nov 6, 2004 11:12 PM | HT Fan ]

- And don't forget the most notorious of all: Mike Greenwell

Hey, if God tells you to retire after seven games, what are you gonna do?
Re: Tigers' Suketto Strategy
[ Author: PLNara | Posted: Nov 7, 2004 5:32 AM | HT Fan ]

- Hey, if God tells you to retire after seven games,
> what are you gonna do?


With my skills, I'd probably thank God that I even got into seven games.
Re: Woods/Arias/Petagine
[ Author: Guest: steve | Posted: Nov 9, 2004 12:16 AM ]

Update: Chunichi looks like it really is going to do anything to get Woods. They have offered a 1 billion, 2 year deal. Hanshin is reluctant to go over the 900 million 2 year deal (this is yen, dollars would be like Yankee money).

I just hope Chunichi has some money left over for a good starter or two.
Re: Woods/Arias/Petagine
[ Author: Guest: steve | Posted: Nov 9, 2004 12:54 AM ]

Kyodo news had a little blurb about Hanshin focusing on Andy Sheets of the Carp.
Re: Woods/Arias/Petagine
[ Author: Guest: John Brooks | Posted: Nov 9, 2004 2:13 AM ]

Hanshin is now talking about signing infielder Andy Sheets. Sheets is expected to be released by the Carp. [Link - JapanBall.com]
Re: Woods/Arias/Petagine
[ Author: Guest: Tigers Baka | Posted: Nov 10, 2004 10:21 AM ]

According to the article, they have almost given up on Woods and are focused on Sheets. How is Sheets comparable to Woods? The Tigers need a home run hitter, a powerful first baseman, and given that Sheets plays half of the season at the tiny Hiroshima stadium, his home run numbers are nothing to brag about. Geez, even the woeful Carp are willing to release him!

Please tell me this is a bad joke!
Re: Woods/Arias/Petagine
[ Author: Guest: boneaux | Posted: Nov 10, 2004 11:49 PM ]

To tigabaka,

Look at the stats of Fujimoto, the shortstop of the Tigers, and those of Sheets. They're not even close! Factor in the difference in the salary of Sheets and Woods and you will get two players for the price of one. Also, look at the defensive capability of Sheets and you will save a lot of runs!

Pitching and defense wins a lot of pennants.
Re: Woods/Arias/Petagine
[ Author: Guest: John Brooks | Posted: Nov 10, 2004 11:10 AM ]

Also, Hanshin is looking at Buffaloes' pitcher Kevin Beirne. Beirne went 6-8 with a 3.89 ERA, in 173 2/3rd innings, with 48BB/154K. [Link - Japan Times]
Re: Woods/Arias/Petagine
[ Author: Guest: Tigers Baka | Posted: Nov 11, 2004 10:12 AM ]

Boneaux, who's even comparing Sheets to Fujimoto. You will see the continued development of Toritani at shortstop next season. He had a fine second half of the season in this his rookie year. He is a genuine long term prospect and, given his numbers at the collegiate level, has All Star potential.

Where are you going to play Sheets? Second base instead of Imaoka? No chance. Sekimoto was great on third base this year and deserves his spot in the side.
Re: Woods/Arias/Petagine
[ Author: Guest: John Brooks | Posted: Nov 12, 2004 6:01 AM ]

Petagine may now leave Yomiuri after Petagine and the Giants failed to reach a deal before the team deadline for exculsive negotiating rights ended Wednesday. [Link - Daily Yomiuri]
Re: Woods/Arias/Petagine
[ Author: Christopher | Posted: Nov 12, 2004 8:00 AM | HAN Fan ]

The decision to drop Arias (more to do with Okada's prejudices than anything else) leaves the Tigers needing a power hitter. Sheets cannot fill that role, and given that the Tigers have two fine shortstops, I don't think that they need another rather mediocre one. Given that Kiyohara might become available, this is an option to look at (a la Hirosawa).

Third base should be Kataoka - Sekimoto is good but doesn't have the hitting power.
Re: Woods/Arias/Petagine
[ Author: Guest: Tigers Baka | Posted: Nov 12, 2004 9:13 AM ]

Can't agree with you regarding Sekimoto, Christopher. You bat .316 after 110 games, I want you in the lineup every day. Kataoka, injury prone, 35, batted .204 this year. Sure he can clear the fences so keep him in a pinch hitting role, but to start him ahead of Sekimoto makes no sense. Kataoka is also a liability on the base paths, one of the slowest base runners (yes including pitchers) I've ever seen!
Re: Woods/Arias/Petagine
[ Author: Guest | Posted: Nov 12, 2004 12:17 PM ]

I have to agree with "Tigers baka." Although not a fan of the Tigers, I've watched enough baseball to know that Kataoka is a liability, even as a pinch hitter, while Sekimoto is probably one of the best hitters that the Tigers have. With Kanemoto being the horse that he is, a healthy Hamanaka, and a full season of Sekimoto at third, the Tigers really only need a power hitter, one who doesnt even need to hit for average. They have the rest of the pieces in terms of offense, with Imaoka, Fujimoto / Toritani, and Akahoshi all providing solid defense, speed, and offense that all they really need is a power hitter.

Their best bet would be to get someone like Kiyohara, stick with Arias, or get a proven hitter who can just hit the ball out of the park.
Re: Woods/Arias/Petagine
[ Author: Christopher | Posted: Nov 12, 2004 12:51 PM | HAN Fan ]

Your point about batting averages is quite valid, but given injuries, may be misleading. What the Tigers have lacked this year is someone who can turn a close game, which Kataoka did very effectively last year. Sekimoto has hit a lot, but the Tigers have not benefited from this, especially in close games.

Kataoka is also, in my opinion, better defensively than Sekimoto who's positioning is not always the best. Watching him last year, in his few appearances, Kataoka did not seem that slow - certainly faster than Kyojin's collection of carthorses.
Re: Woods/Arias/Petagine
[ Author: torakichi | Posted: Nov 12, 2004 6:48 PM | HT Fan ]

From the bleachers it looked like Sekimoto acquitted himself well in the hot corner. The Tigers tried out some experimental 2nd-SS-3rd combinations in the last couple of weeks of the season, but they all centred on Imaoka, Toritani, Fujimoto, and Sekimoto.

Right or wrong, it appears Kataoka is going to be used in a Yagi-type role in the Tigers.
Re: Woods/Arias/Petagine
[ Author: Guest: Tigers Baka | Posted: Nov 12, 2004 11:33 PM ]

I respect to your thoughts Christopher, but the numbers do the talking and Sekimoto`s can't be ignored. If you were the manager, given this season's performance, surely you could not give Kataoka the nod to start over Sekimoto next year. It would be iresponsible of a manager to ignore the numbers which are worlds apart, and I think you're flattering Kataoka's speed around the diamond. I've often found large sections of the Tigers' faithful laughing/cringing at his arkward and "painful to watch" running style.

Sekimoto has a future as an everyday player. I agree with the other poster that Kataoka has had his day and will fill the pinch hitting role that Yagi has left. God bless that Okayama hero! Momotaro himself!
Re: Woods/Arias/Petagine
[ Author: Christopher | Posted: Nov 13, 2004 1:22 PM | HAN Fan ]

What numbers do not show is match winning potential. Using someone whose numbers may not be so good, but who, when he does hit wins ten matches compared to someone with excellent numbers who doesn't win any matches is, to my mind, a far better option. Too many times this season Tigers' pitchers would pitch a tight game and the batting would throw it away.

What Hoshino did was assemble a team of batters who could win these matches - Akahoshi, Arias, Kataoka, Hirosawa, and Yagi. Of these (for various reasons) only Akahoshi and Kataoka will be left, and only Akahoshi will be a regular (and incidently he is playing superbly against the MLB team). The current lineup can hit, but do not turn the tight games.

Kataoka played best when he played the entire match, and in his last full game for the Tigers this season, won the game for them. However, I think you are right that he will be used in the pinch hit role.
Re: Woods/Arias/Petagine
[ Author: Guest: Tigers Baka | Posted: Nov 14, 2004 12:28 PM ]

Sorry Christopher. I watched almost all Tigers' game this year, either live or on cable. I can't remember Kataoka winning 10 games. Do you have the stats to justify that statement?
Re: Woods/Arias/Petagine
[ Author: Christopher | Posted: Nov 14, 2004 7:06 PM | HAN Fan ]

I wasn't referring to Kataoka this year - he didn't play enough to have that kind of effect. I am commenting on a failure to use match wining players effectively.
Re: Using Kataoka More
[ Author: mijow | Posted: Nov 16, 2004 1:44 PM | HT Fan ]

Christopher, with all due respect, this sounds like Monday morning quarter-backing, or whatever the expression is.

Do you wonder why Kataoka wasn't used more often this year? Could it simply be that he wasn't playing as well, with injuries, etc. - rather than incompetence on the part of the manager?

In another thread you criticized Okada severely when he left Igawa in too long in one game, saying that he didn't have the stuff this season to go the distance. Then in his next start, Igawa pitches a no-hitter. So Okada was perhaps justified to have faith in his ace.

Maybe if you had managed the Tigers this year you would have used Kataoka more, but what if he had continued to fail at the plate? What would you have done? It's not enough to say he only needed more at-bats. Did you see him in batting practice? Did you talk to the coaches? Were you there in the dugout?

From what I saw, Kataoka appeared to be struggling (although he wasn't the only one this season), and I think Okada was justified in failing to use him more often.
Re: Using Kataoka More
[ Author: Guest: Tigers Baka | Posted: Nov 16, 2004 11:47 PM ]

Yeah, I'm a litle mystified by it all. At first you said, Kataoka should be prefered over Sekimoto, then you said Kataoka would be used in a pinch hitting role. Assuming that you are not back-pedalling after being presented with cold hard stats, what are the fans, coaching staff/administration of the Tigers missing when you say Kataoka should be starting next season?

I don't want to be inflammatory, but it seems you have a very unique view on this. Let me put it this way, if you were manager next season, and you faced the press over your decision to start Kataoka over Sekimoto, how could you possibly justify your decision?
Re: Using Kataoka More
[ Author: Christopher | Posted: Nov 17, 2004 9:07 AM | HAN Fan ]

I hope you will both forgive me if I reply to both posts at once. I would not say I am Monday morning quarterbacking - I would have said the same thing at the begining of the season. I am afraid I have no faith in Okada's management or judgement, and this season the results seem to bear this out. He is far too rigid and reactive as a manager.

I did critisize him for removing Igawa, yes, but even on the TV it was clear that Igawa was tiring in that inning. The fact that Igawa was able to pitch an entire match in his next start is irrelevant - what mattered was the actual match conditions. He has been erratic this season (and also seems to have had injury problems). Watching Kataoka, he was not comfortable in the pinch hit role, but once put in for an entire match, he looked much more comfortable. He should have at least had a good run after his last full match where he performed very well.

When I said that Kataoka should be used over Sekimoto, I was expressing what I think should happen. When I said that he will probably be used in the pinch hit role, I was saying what will probably happen. I do not see what is mystifying about this.

Now if I were the Tigers' team management, I would justify inlcuding Kataoka by the argument that we need to win matches. Sekimoto, despite a good season, did not win tight matches and Kataoka did. He is also better defensively. I alluded in an earlier post to using match winners rather than numbers men. The Tigers' coaching this year seems to have generated more injuries and I don't think that they have the judgement to use their talent effectively.

The Tigers are missing match winners to turn tight games, and it seems that Okada does not have any understanding of this aspect of the game.
Re: Using Kataoka More
[ Author: mijow | Posted: Nov 17, 2004 10:54 AM | HT Fan ]

Christopher,

Well, I think you're wrong regarding Igawa, but this may well reflect a different baseball philosophy. As a manager, I would show more faith in my pitching ace, whatever the circumstances. Yes, Igawa was tired that night. But remember, he was three outs away from a shutout. If I were the pitcher in that situation, I'd like to think that my manager would show more faith in me. Igawa has pitched through tiredness before, and as you know, he certainly wasn't burned out at that stage in the season, because he bounced back and pitched the no-hitter in his next start.

As for your having no faith in Okada's management, well, I'd have to agree that Okada has generally been a disappointment this season. But he does have a superb record at ni-gun level.
Igawa, Okada, and Ramirez
[ Author: Christopher | Posted: Nov 17, 2004 6:32 PM | HAN Fan ]

I think Igawa would have been happier with being pulled and getting another mark in the win column. A manager should be thinking of the win and only the win.

Okada may have had a good record at the lower level, but he is now managing at a higher level. His experience at the lower level will be useful, but he cannot assume things will be the same - they get harder.

Do you think that there is any chance of Tigers bidding for Ramirez?
Re: Igawa, Okada, and Ramirez
[ Author: Guest: Tigers Baka | Posted: Nov 17, 2004 11:11 PM ]

Well I think we can all agree on the fact that Okada is not a good fit at Hanshin.

- I would justify inlcuding Kataoka by the argument that we need to win matches. Sekimoto, despite a good season, did not win tight matches and Kataoka did.

As I mentioned, I watched almost every Tigers' game bar about 5 this year, and I do not recall Kataoka winning tight matches. I can't recall a great deal of clutch hits coming from Kataoka and would like some stats to support this. I think logic concludes Sekimoto batting .316 over 110 games contributed to many more wins than Kataoka this year.

Looks like we are at a stalemate here, so maybe this thread is exhausted - although I think we can all agree Sekimoto took the biggest step up in the club this year, after batting .269 over 36 games the previous season. At just 26, I think he has an exciting future with the club.

The Ramirez question is interesting, where to put him is a bit of an issue! Thoughts anyone? We really need more power on the club, though. I think he's worth pursuing - especially now that it looks like we lost out on Woods.
Re: Igawa, Okada, and Ramirez
[ Author: Guest: steve | Posted: Nov 18, 2004 4:16 AM ]

I'm really surprised that Yakult would lowball Ramirez like that. I saw some late games there, and there was almost no crowd for them (Chunichi fans out numbered them both games).

Hanshin could probably get him for a similar number to the Woods offer, unless Rakuten makes a huge bid (Japanball says they're gunning for him). I'm wondering if Yakult is gonna be gone soon.

On a side note, I re-read my post and I appreciate the fact that nobody started slamming me when I said I "had no clue." I was a very easy target and nobody took a shot. Thank you.
Re: Igawa, Okada, and Ramirez
[ Author: mijow | Posted: Nov 18, 2004 12:57 AM | HT Fan ]

- A manager should be thinking of the win and only the win.

Chris, that's part of the differerent philosophy you have. Wins are important, but looking after your players is another responsibility. And if you can do the two at the same time, that's perfect. Late in a bad season, what's a win worth anyway? Why not give your proven ace a chance for a shutout?

As I said before, the decision to pull Igawa that night was not the only obvious thing to do. I remember that game vividly, and I remember weighing up the options, and thinking that it was a tough call for Okada to make. (Easy for you of course, but tough for someone as inexperienced as Okada.)

Igawa's a tough competitor, and I am certain he wanted to finish that game. He's done it before, and he'll do it again.
Re: Igawa, Okada, and Ramirez
[ Author: Christopher | Posted: Nov 18, 2004 9:06 AM | HAN Fan ]

- Wins are important, but looking after your players is another responsibility. And if you can do the two at the same time, that's perfect. Late in a bad season, what's a win worth anyway? Why not give your proven ace a chance for a shutout?

Looking after your players does not involve over-pitching them. It involves using them wisely - Igawa is tough, but he is not superman and even he gets tired. If I could see how Igawa was tiring so could Okada. Hoshino looked after his players and look how they responded. Okada doesn't and look at the injury list. Furthermore not thinking of the win led to Tigers finishing fourth.

Tigers baka - do you remember the last full game Kataoka played? He hit a RBI double and a home run (IIRC). I can't remember the opponents, but his scores were the difference between the teams. The only reason Sekimoto may have contributed to more games is only because Okada wouldn't use Kataoka. Sekimoto might have hit a lot, but he always looked nervous and did not turn tight games like Kataoka did in 2003.

I do hope the Tigers try for Ramirez as he would be a very welcome addition. He is the kind of player I have been talking about (and Steve mentioned) - a match winner.
Re: Igawa, Okada, and Ramirez
[ Author: Guest | Posted: Nov 18, 2004 11:16 AM ]

- A manager should be thinking of the win and only the win.

I've got to go with mijow on this one, unless the manager is hired to win with this team, now, and nothing else matters. Rarely does a team take such a position, because such a philosophy is bound to burn players out, but more importantly, because it is likely to leave you with a pitching staff with toast for arms. See Billy Martin's history in the majors for a stark example.

Besides, the logical extreme of this article would be to pitch your ace starter fifteen innings, 190+ pitches on opening day, because well, a win is a win. Of course, if you think about the risk of losing your ace for the whole darn season, such an approach is ludicrous - there's 130 some games to go (in NPB).

Every manager has to manage for the marathon of the season, not just the sprint of one game. Later in the season, if the team is contending, the sprint gains in importance.

Jim Albright
Re: Igawa, Okada, and Ramirez
[ Author: Christopher | Posted: Nov 18, 2004 12:54 PM | HAN Fan ]

I think I have been taken out of context here. I do not mean that you win by using your ace pitcher again and again. I meant that you use your players wisely and don't overpitch them. Thus you do not pitch Igawa for nine innings when he is obviously getting tired. You think about how to win by relieving him with someone fresh. A complete game shutout should be a rare thing and you do not win (except in the short term) by pushing your pitchers too hard.

A sprint, though, can be useful at the start of the season, especially if you can open up such a gap that no one can catch you.
Re: Igawa, Okada, and Ramirez
[ Author: Guest: Jim Albright | Posted: Nov 19, 2004 12:44 AM ]

I'll accept your explanation, but your phrasing left a bit to be desired if that's what you meant.

Beyond the issues of wearing out players, a manager has to concern himself with the personal side - showing players he has confidence in them to perform their roles, and even occasionally letting a star pitcher try to finish out a game he wants to finish just to keep him happy. That can be overdone, too, but it can be useful at times.

Managing is a tough job. It's out in front of everybody, and, as one great American manager (Stengel?) once said, a key aspect is keeping the five guys on the roster who hate you from converting the fifteen on the fence.

I'm not getting into the specific game you guys are talking about, as I can't follow Japanese baseball closely enough to comment on a single game during the regular season unless what happened was truly extraordinary.

Jim Albright
Re: Igawa, Okada, and Ramirez
[ Author: mijow | Posted: Nov 19, 2004 8:47 PM | HT Fan ]

Jim, I saw the game in question, and sure, Igawa looked tired, but I've been following his career from the beginning, and he's looked tired before and has come through. The guy is not superman, but finishing that game was certainly within his power.

The main thing I object to is armchair critics who think they know a whole lot more than a manager who works with the players day in, day out, who's played something like 10 years at the top level, and has been an extraordinary successful manager of the farm team. One would think the guy knows a little bit about the game.

OK, I have been known to grumble at some of the decisions Okada has made, too, along with half of Kansai. But on this occasion, Christopher's criticism was definitely not justified. You have to give Okada the benefit of the doubt. With a player of the quality of Igawa on the mound, it was a tough call.
Re: Igawa, Okada, and Ramirez
[ Author: Christopher | Posted: Nov 20, 2004 12:42 PM | HAN Fan ]

Mijow, you have to realise that Okada's experience does not necessarily make him a good manager or a good judge of circumstances. Making a change between levels is difficult. A manager cannot assume that he knows, but only that he has to learn a lot again. His experience will aid him in this process but will not replace it.

The only really effective way to judge management is on results. Then you look at how the decisions were taken and the level of anticipation and proactiveness employed in taking a decision. The worst managers in any field are ones who are too reactive and make the same mistakes again and again.

Looking at Okada I am not impressed by him as a manager based on his results. He took the runaway champions of the Central League and turned them into the fourth place team. One of his failings this season has been the above mentioned inability to anticipate problems, and when they happen, to react too slowly. For example, his management of the Tigers against the BayStars in the early season was incredibly poor. I have watched Yoshino begging to be taken off because he was pitching badly and Okada ignoring him.

Igawa was not pitching against the bottom teams in the league but the league leaders. He was tiring against a team that were going all out to win the pennant. This information should have played a part in Okada's decision making, but didn't seem to do so. Igawa had pitched superbly up until then, but even so should have been replaced because he was tiring. Given Okada's previously demonstrated management style it was unlikely that this would have happened. The decision was a mistake, and I know you would like it to be different, but the result shows that position to be wrong. If this was a single mistake then it would be sad but not worth discussing. It wasn't - it was part of a pattern of similar mistakes. When Okada finally removed Igawa (and remember this, he did pull him) it was too late and his handling of the endgame was likewise poor. Finishing that game definitely was not within Igawa's power as the result shows.

Now another word about management - it is all about tough decisions. It's nice when you get an easy one, but you are mostly dealing with hard choices. These have to be made quickly and under pressure. You also have to be as proactive as possible because the longer you leave decisions, the more difficult they become, and the more serious the consequences are. Making tough decisions will also inevitably upset some people at times, but the manager needs to think of the good of the organization first (that is his job) before the good of the individual. You explain clearly why you made the decision, and if possible, you make it up to the individual (Igawa got his full game victory next start) but you do not balk at the difficult decision.

I hope I have not taken up too much space, but that this explanation will help you better understand why the decision on that particular game was wrong and why it wasn't just a mistake, but part of a pattern. I am hoping that Okada will have learnt from this season and next season we will see a different performance.
Re: Igawa, Okada, and Ramirez
[ Author: mijow | Posted: Nov 20, 2004 7:23 PM | HT Fan ]

Christopher,

Look, I agree with almost everything you say, and you don't have to lecture me on management theory and all the rest of it - I'm not an idiot, and I'm very much aware that Okada's experience doesn't necessarily make him a good manager. And it's painfully clear that Okada stuggled through the 2004 season.

But I simply don't agree with your assessment of that particular decision in that particular game. I've seen enough baseball, and enough of Igawa to know what I'm talking about. I saw the game myself with my own eyes, and it was certainly a tough decision for Okada to make. I may have pulled Igawa, somebody else would have left him in. Baseball is like that, and sometimes you make the wrong decision, or your players let you down; at other times they make you look like a genius.

I still think pulling Igawa wasn't the obvious decision. That's all I'm saying. You're quite certain about it; I'm not. But that's OK. We just have different views. You won't convince me that you're right, and I certainly won't change your mind. So I think we should just leave it at that.
Re: Using Kataoka More
[ Author: Guest: steve | Posted: Nov 17, 2004 9:56 AM ]

I actually kinda understand what Christopher is saying a bit. I think.

Kataoka is a guy that just wins. It's like Reggie Sanders or Kenny Lofton. Sanders has been discarded by a couple of different teams (Arizona and San Francisco), his hitting isn't the best all of the time, and his defense isn't the greatest, but teams seem to do better with him on their team. Arizona won the championship with him, let him go to San Fran, and then lost the National League crown - San Fran won the pennant, let him go and St. Louis who got to the championship 2 years later.

There's no sense to it, but players react to him. Maybe Kataoka is a guy his teammates rally around. I have no clue (I'm a Dragons Fan).

Sometimes teams win in spite of the gaudy numbers.

I'll let Christopher answer for himself.
Re: Woods/Arias/Petagine
[ Author: Guest: John Brooks | Posted: Nov 17, 2004 9:04 AM ]

Yakult OF Alex Ramirez failed to come to terms with Yakult, now making him a free agent. Ramirez turned down a 3 year 800 million yen contract ($7,587,344). Ramirez batted .305 with 31 HR and 110 RBI's. [Link - Daily Yomiuri] [Currency Converter]
Re: Woods/Arias/Petagine
[ Author: Guest: John Brooks | Posted: Nov 18, 2004 9:47 AM ]

Rakuten has announced they intend to try to sign FA outfielder Alex Ramirez. The Eagles announced they have contacted Ramirez. If they were to sign Ramirez this would be a good start. [Link - Daily Yomiuri]
Re: Woods/Arias/Petagine
[ Author: Guest: Luis Raul Villamizar | Posted: Nov 18, 2004 10:33 PM ]

Roberto Petagine is considered a good contract negotiator in Venezuela. He showed his character and business capabilities with the Leones de Caracas (Caracas Lions) of the Venezuelan Professional Baseball League. Do you think that he would get a good salary for other teams?

Thanks a lot,

Luis raul Villamizar
Re: Woods/Arias/Petagine
[ Author: westbaystars | Posted: Nov 18, 2004 11:47 PM | YBS Fan ]

- Do you think that [Petagine] would get a good salary for other teams?

That's unlikely. Other than his age, Petagine didn't perform for the Giants as well as he had for the Swallows. Of course, the Giants tried to make him a right fielder and sat him out while he was hot in favor of allowing Kiyohara to reach 2,000 hits between injuries. So the Giants' poor managing had some effect.

But, if you don't perform well for the Giants, then you're not going to attract much money elsewhere.
Re: Woods/Arias/Petagine
[ Author: Guest: Jim Albright | Posted: Nov 19, 2004 12:52 AM ]

He's still a formidable hitter, though, and I'd think he could get a nice one year deal, especially for a team looking for a first baseman or DH. His age might hurt him if he's after a mulit-year deal.

Jim Albright
Re: Woods/Arias/Petagine
[ Author: Christopher | Posted: Nov 19, 2004 4:11 PM | HAN Fan ]

He would have to drop his salary significantly though - the other teams would balk at paying what the Giants were paying him. Recent speculation in the Japanese sports press had linked Kiyohara with the Tigers. However they are now saying that Petagine will return to his home country. I presume Kiyohara would continue at first base.
Re: Woods/Arias/Petagine
[ Author: Guest: John Brooks | Posted: Nov 21, 2004 10:00 AM ]

Orix has said they're interested in Kioyhara if he leaves Yomiuri, manager Akira Ohgi said. [Link - The Japan Times]
Kiyohara
[ Author: Christopher | Posted: Nov 21, 2004 2:37 PM | HAN Fan ]

Yomiuri's current owner is indicating that they don't have any interest in retaining Kiyohara. So Tigers or Buffaloes?
Re: Woods/Arias/Petagine
[ Author: Guest: John Brooks | Posted: Nov 19, 2004 5:37 AM ]

The Swallows have increased there offer to Alex Ramirez to 3 years, 900 million yen ($8,644,673). The Eagles have offered Ramirez a 1 billion yen contract ($9,604,873) for three years. [Link - Daily Yomiuri] [Currency Converter]
Re: Alex Ramirez
[ Author: Guest: John Brooks | Posted: Nov 20, 2004 9:44 AM ]

It now looks like the Rakuten will get Ramirez, as Yakult just acquired Riggs from Anaheim. [See also Riggs to Join Yakult thread.]
Re: Alex Ramirez
[ Author: Jingu Bleacher Bum | Posted: Nov 20, 2004 5:27 PM | YAK Fan ]

- It now looks like the Rakuten will get Ramirez, as Yakult just acquired Riggs from Anaheim.

I don't think acquiring Riggs has anything to do with Ramirez. Yakult was looking for a replacemnt for Billy Martin, and hopefully Riggs will fair better. I've been reading this Ramirez chase with Rakuten the past couple of days, and it seems there's a bit of controversy as to whether Rakuten "tampered" with Yakult's negotiations. When Rakuten came out publicly and said they would offer Ramirez a 3 year 1 billion yen contract before Yakult's exclusive negotiating rights had expired, Yakult believes that Ramirez' agent heard this and was holding out for more. Thus Yakult might file a tampering complaint with the Commissioners Office, and if Rakuten is found guilty, they won't be able to sign Ramirez, ever.
Re: Woods/Arias/Petagine
[ Author: Guest: John Brooks | Posted: Nov 25, 2004 3:45 AM ]

Chunichi indicated, that they are close to signing Tyrone Woods. Chunichi President Junnosuke Nishikawa said "I believe he will come to our team unless something very unusual happens and it would be good to speak (about the acquisition of Woods) in early December." [Link - Japan Ball]
Chunichi Re-Signs Guzman
[ Author: Guest: steve | Posted: Nov 23, 2004 9:11 AM ]

Guzman re-signed with the Dragons for 2 years. I guess they are trying to be the Chunichi BayStars now.

(Sorry about getting off topic Michael. The Expos are just a sore subject with me.)
Re: Woods/Arias/Petagine
[ Author: pigskins15 | Posted: Nov 28, 2004 9:56 AM | YBS Fan ]

The Dragons will do anything to win. I just hope that losing Tyrone will not hurt the BayStars. They have been at the bottom for a couple years now. I think that Yokohama owes its fans to put a respectful team out this year.
Re: Woods/Arias/Petagine
[ Author: Guest: John Brooks | Posted: Dec 1, 2004 6:54 AM ]

Yomiuri officials now said Petagine will leave the Giants after both sides failed to reach an agreement on contract negotiations. [Link - Daily Yomiuri]
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