Cheers/Chants

Can you read Japanese? I've referenced this page a lot to find out the cheers for various teams (if they don't have the cheers, they have links to places that do).

Alternately, go sit in the stands where they're leading the songs, and ask someone for a lyrics sheet.

Loosely linked to the topic of cheers and Hiroshima, if anyone read closely enough to see that I didn't fully rate (or indeed like) Kazuhiro Wada before he moved to the Dragons was probably quite perceptive. However, one Friday morning, slaving away in the office keeping tabs on a Friday night in Hiroshima, has put to bed all of those thoughts. I just want to go out on to the streets of sunny (but cold) Kent and sing his cheer song repeatedly (albeit quite quietly!). Trouble is, I don't know it. Finding out the lyrics should be easy enough, but I need a tune. Anyone want to go to a game and video the Dragons fans singing it for me? Or do the same from the TV? I know I'm lazy, I should just ask a friend to do it for me, and no doubt will.

Sorry for crashing your Hiroshima thread, but it was going to have to be said somewhere! Another good feeling about this season despite a less than perfect week in Koshien.

I don't think you should learn it before you go to a stadium. Just go there and learn it.

Are you a fan of Hiroshima Toyo Carp?

Agree with that entirely. If you can (or if you are learning to) read some Japanese, try to get near to where the Oendan (cheer section) are and you can follow their prompts from the cards they hold up. This could help familiarize you with some of the simpler and more common chants. Learning each of the players' theme songs could be quite a challenge if you are new to the language. It will come with time and effort though.

Yes, my family and I just moved to the city a month ago. Looking forward to the games. I will ask some surrounding fans how to sing the songs. Thanks for the tips.

Really. I'm also a fan of the Hiroshima Toyo Carp. If you want to ask me, anything's OK, you can.

I'm into baseball chants. In Europe they got football chants and I see some resemblance. They've got supporters there and in Japan's ouendan. However, it is rougher in Europe and waaay more political. But more fun in Japan.

I just found this [YouTube] on the Internet and thought this was rather funny. This was the game where Marines played in the old Lotte uniforms from the Kawasaki days, so on this day the fans were playing old retro tunes and some dude is yelling when you are supposed to yell kattobase whoever.

Aho. Aho. Aho no Yokota. Kintetsu densha de hayo kaire.
---
Moron. Moron. You moron Yokota. Take a hike on the Kintetsu Line.

They were playing this tune when Hayakawa was playing because he used to be on Orix, therefore this?

Apart from that, Fukuura's got a rocking tune [YouTube]. He is probably my favorite Marines player, too, due to his smoothness.

Orera wa sakebu. Ute Fukuura. Ute fukuura. Seien wo ukete. Ute Fukuura. Ute Fukuuraaa. Shori wo tsukame. hai hai hai hai hai.

I also like Kobe's chant. The lyrics are easy.

Go Kobe, Go Kobe, Oretachi no Kobe, Go Kobe, Go Kobe, Oretachi no Kobe...

The thing with Marines' chants is that the fans are louder than other fans and their tunes are more catchy. You have much more people singing than other clubs. All the other teams' chants, with the exception of the Giants because they copy Marines fans, are pretty much the same from the 1980s or so, where as Lotte fans are innovative.

Lotte chants innovative? Maybe in the past they were but now? Just warmed over football chants.

No group of fans match the Tigers' oendan, who also have several nice variants on other teams' chants. Their version of the Yokohama BayStars' song is perhaps the best.

Uhh... what? Do you go to games? Do you listen to other teams' songs? Have you sat in any of the other cheering sections? Where are you getting this from?

I can tell you that at least 50% of the Fighters' music is from the last 5 years since moving to Sapporo, lots of new songs (in fact there is something of a little bit of a Kanto-Hokkaido rivalry in terms of what songs we will and won't sing, which even led to the Kanto-only Chitty Chitty Bang Bang chance music that they made up this year as an answer to Sapporo's Genghis Khan chance music). The sanka is the same old song, but the other music is new (all of the Kentaro Hayami stuff).

Same for the BayStars -- much as I hate to admit it, my favorite song to sing in the stands this year was the "Behind" chance music that they made up that pretty much says "let's go BayStars, despite that we're clumsy and pathetic and we suck."

And don't even get me started on the fact that every year the Dragons release a new version of Moe Yo Dragons. I still never could quite learn Norihiro's new fanfare this year, but that might also have something to do with the dysfunctional Chunichi ouendan.

Even Seibu, much as I've always hated to admit it, has a really fun set of ouenka, and their really devoted fans are pretty great. I spent most of the Japan Series and Asia Series in the Seibu cheering section and felt a little bit sad that I was unlikely to hear those songs from the same side of the field again for a while.

And Carp fans are just plain amazing. Seriously.

I could go on about this for hours, really. Even Orix fans with their Towel Chance Dance impressed me. I think every team has great ouenka and traditions. Well, Yomiuri can bite me, though perhaps ironically my favorite Giants cheer involved the one for Nioka when they'd play "Sky High" as his intro and it'd cascade into the crowd yelling "GO GO NIOKA! [clap clap clapclapclap]." I wonder what we're going to do on the Fighters for him, assuming he plays next year.

Anyway, the only really redeeming thing about the Marines' cheers is that they're easy. Even if you don't speak Japanese, it's pretty easy to learn and do them.

I've heard some of the Marines' player chants and they are easy, especially Agbayani's. I have wanted to learn the SoftBank chants for a while, but I can't find any.

I would have to respectfully disagree that the Marines have the loudest fans in NPB. While each team's fans are indeed passionate about supporting their teams and probably scream 'till their voices crack, I would have to say that the "loudest" fans are the Carp in the Central League and the Lions in the Pacific League based on my experiences.

NipponHam, the site that Deanna linked earlier in the thread, will have everything you need in regards to finding the SoftBank songs. I would highly suggest bookmarking that page while you're at it, too, because I believe it is one of the best places to get cheer songs on the net.

When I mean the same from the '80s I mean the style is the same from the '80s. It's the plastic megaphone and the drum beat.

Don. Don. Don don don. Kattobase, name.

It's old. The tunes might be new, but the style is not. Be it Hanshin, Chunichi, Yakult, Hiroshima fans, or some Pacific League, it is almost always constantly the same - drum beat, plastic bats, and you never can hear people singing. All you hear is horns and plastic bats, all clapping the same beat. In comparison, Chiba has a complete original style and are louder than other teams.

I notice fans from Kanto, mostly Marines, Giants, and Yokohama, are going away from the plastic bats and are only using hands, and it was the Chiba Lotte Marines fans who started this trend. Where as in Kansai, Hokkaido, and Kyushu they are still using their bats. The towel that the Giants fans wave whenever Giants score a run was copied from Marines' fans. The flags that Lions' fans wave was copied from Marines' fans, too.

When I was in junior high I actually used to play trumpet in the bleachers and then I moved to Europe and then went back to Japan and went to bleachers again, and I met some of the old folks who were still around. I was asked if I wanted to play again, but I kindly declined the offer. (What I did not tell them was that I sold out on them and switched teams.) I kinda switched from the CL to the PL. This is not something I like to brag about but, I've got relatives in Chiba, and am happy to see some Chiba pride as I grew up in Yokohama and Tokyo and remember including myself looking down on Chiba; and my Chiba relatives kind of had a complex from being from Chiba, but not any more. I'm on their side now.

Anyhow. The balloons that they have in the 7th inning, I heard the fans who started this trend were Hiroshima fans. Then Hanshin fans copied it and made it popular throughout Japan.

I respect Yokohama and Yakult for not doing the balloon thing. I am not a big fan of it and think Lotte should quit the balloon tradition.

Yokohama's chant, where they play the trumpet one time and where it is acapella the next, the chant which Deanna describes is also one of my favorites. I like Yokohama, so don't want to say too many bad things about the city, team, and fans, but the fans and the team need some new energy. The same can be said about Swallows fans as I think they have even less energy than BayStars fans.

As for chants. I also like Takehara's chant [YouTube].

La la la la la la Takehara
Tamashi wo komete furi nuke

I also like the chant Marines have whenever they score a run[YouTube].

Then there is the Black Flag theme song [YouTube]. This song is played whenever the opposition changes pitcher.

This is the Marines' chant before the game [YouTube].

Apart from Marines chants, there is something very special and majestic over when Hanshin fans sing Rokko Oroshi.

Why does everyone think Seibu copied the flags from Chiba? They didn't. Chiba started it in 2007, and I know for a fact Seibu had them in 2006 and before, because I used to have a Matsuzaka flag, which as you can guess would not be produced after 2006.

The little variations on the kattobase call between teams is always fun too (Seibu with "Kattobase, ____! Go go let's go ____!" or my personal favorite, Chunichi's addition of "Yomiuri taose wo!" to every batter's call when playing at the Tokyo Dome against the Giants. Fighters always do "Go go let's go ____" for any foreign player instead of Kattobase, too.)

And don't forget, the Fighters fans also do cheers for the umpires on occasion.

But really, what's wrong with tradition, anyway? Cheering Japanese-style is what's the most fun about going to the games, and if that means banging sticks and playing trumpets and yelling kattobase, so be it. It's fun. I would hate to see it all change or go away. The cheers and traditions for each team's fans is what makes each group unique and fun.

I know all of the Lotte ouenka, actually. I still think they're not that interesting. Though it cracks me up to do Masahiko Tanaka's. (And, yes, I filmed that video.)

(I once picked "We Love Marines" at karaoke with a friend who doesn't know baseball. He was like "This isn't so bad..." and then it got to the chorus and totally burst out laughing, like "Did they run out of words?")

I think maybe you need to study other teams more. Players songs aren't just 3,2 beat Katobase - this is the end line. I've never had any trouble hearing the words either. The songs themselves are often quite complex - the Hanshin Fujimoto song involves breaking and restarting the pattern at a different point. The Hamanaka song started with a slow beat and then accelerated. The Hiyama song doesn't use a beat but complicated patterns with the bats. Compare all this to the Lotte songs - certainly you can hear them, but they are so simple you wish you couldn't.

As for Lotte fans being the loudest - this statement is an absurdity. Come to a Tigers/Giants game you'll soon see what loud is. The atto hitori and atto ikyu chants in the ninth almost always drown out the opposition fans.

The towels you mention were actually a Giants creation, not a Lotte creation. They were used by Giants fans well before Lotte took them up.

You mention the black flag theme song Tigers fans sing Old Lang Syne when they knock a pitcher out of the game - far more stylish.

Incidentally, Dragons fans have taken to using ato hitori as well, but they still don't have the volume.

Quite simply, every other teams' oendan is more creative and musical than the Lotte oendan. Chants are more musical and more imaginative and actually have lyrics (something almost alien to Lotte chants).

N26, I have to respectfully disagree with you once again. I don't believe that Seibu copied Chiba with the flags. If anything, I believe it was the other way around. According to a die hard Seibu fan who is a friend of mine, Seibu actually started to use the flags sometime during the 2005 season, and now going back and seeing that Matsuzaka flag picture that Deanna posted proves my point. And also, Yokohama fans, for the most part, still use their cheer bats when they cheer. I think it was this season (or maybe last season) that the BayStars goods shop started to sell some inflatable Hossey heads that you could use instead of the bats. But I see only random and sporadic people using those to cheer.

But on another note, I saw that Yomiuri was selling their own flags during the Japan Series this year, so there's more fuel to add to the proverbial fire in regards to Yomiuri ripping off other teams' cheers.

I guess the point I'm trying to make is that, while we can all agree that many things need to (and probably should be) changed for NPB to grow as a sport, the cheering is not one of them. It's a huge reason why I became a fan of Pro Yakyu, and it has helped me improve my Japanese greatly.

Besides, if you were a salaryman and you had a hard day at work, wouldn't it be better to buy a ￥700 pair of bats and take out your anger on those rather than just clapping to death and ending up hurting your hands?

Man, are you guys anti-Marines? Haters? I disagree with you guys, but I do realize I am the minority here.

I have been watching baseball in Japan since 1982. I'd bring my trumpet and you had people who would camp outside the stadium from the day before to get good seats. I was too young then, so was not allowed to camp, but would wake up at 4 and go to the ball park and bring my trumpet. Now I actually prefer watching in the infield and not bleachers, but when I was younger I preferred bleachers.

Anyhow, Seibu and Hanshin are not original. They have not changed much since the 1980s. The same beat, the same kattobase and name. The plastic bats that the fans still use is old. Fans have been hitting on megaphones and bats as far back as I can remember to the same drum beat. The Marines fans, on the other hand, have an innovative new style which is different from all other teams, but which are now being copied by various teams.

Other teams have some minor changes in their ouen but still it is not original. The ouen on other teams is easy because it is the same beat and you just clap and then say kattobase and then the name. Seibu says kattobase name, then "go go let's go" and name. But that is not original either as Yomiuri used to say "go go let's go" to foreign players such as Smith from the 1980s before the Lions started using it. The point is that it is just small, little variations within the framework of baseball ouen. Lotte also has the old style, too, but at the same time bring a completely different style and originality.

I have not been to Koshien, so can't say anything about Tigers fans there, but just from watching TV I can say it looks very impressive. But it is the old plastic bat banging, happi coat wearing style which is not original whatsoever. I have been to the Dome and also Korakuen. Hanshin fans were very loud in both places, and especially in Korakuen the place would be completely fully packed. You could barely move, but I also saw Marines in the Dome and I had never experienced the stadium being as loud as then. The same can be said when the Marines were playing the Asian Series in Tokyo Dome. The Marines fans rocked the Dome harder than both Tigers and Giants fans ever have done.

Here is an Asian Series clip [YouTube].

The towel was started by Marines fans and not Giants fans. Here the commentators also say who started the towel. The Marines are the originals. Giants copy Marines. In Japanese you can Google Lotte no pakuri [Google]. And you will get quite a few hits. Giants fans are notorious for copying Marines fans. Their whole ouen is a big fat pakuri from the Marines, and they are not doing a very good job [YouTube].

Here is the flag theme song [YouTube] which Marines fans do much better than any other team in Japan followed by the excellent run song. These flags that fans wave, they have been selling these kinds of flags as far back as I can remember just like with the megaphones and plastic bats actually. But it was Marines fans who started waving them first and the Lions copied the Marines. Actually the Marines fans started making their own home made flags and started waving them first, then other fans picked up on what the Marines fans were doing and started waving these small flags as well. Just as with these big flags, the Marines fans started using it first and then other teams such as Giants and Lions copied Marines.

Here is an another pakuri from Lotte [So-Net Blogs].

The Inaba jump which Nichi Ham fans do is also copied from Marines fans. Another Lotte pakuri.

Yakult and Hiroshima also had a song where they would sing Yomiuri taose-yo. I think it was actually Hiroshima who started that first. When Yakult plays Tokyo Ondo, they usually sing Kuttabare Yomiuri, Kuttabare Yomiuri. Then aaaaaa, odoru odoru naaara, choito Tokyo Ondo, yoi yoi. Kutabare meaning something like rot? Rot Yomiuri?

With all due respect, Seibu does not have much ouen. You go to Seibu Dome for a Lotte game and Lotte fans would out number Seibu fans on their own turf, and in Makuhari there would hardly be any Seibu fans; and then they wave these little flags which Lotte fans started waving first. Lotte has a good chant when playing Seibu called Seibu niha zettai makerarenai [YouTube]. Again, very original.

- Man, are you guys anti-Marines? Haters? I disagree with you guys, but I do realize I am the minority here.

N 26-san, I think you mis-interpret difference of opinion with disagreement. Each fan has a different perception of events. And the frog in the well knows nothing of the ocean.

From my observations, your time line for the small flags, towels, and most other points are correct. But since I wasn't in the stands at Seibu Dome between 3 and 5 years ago, I can't say that with 100% certainty.

I was amused that the Giants had a sponsor create a big banner that covered their oendan when the Marines' fans had created theirs originally through a grass roots effort. To me, that's the biggest difference between the Giants and the innovators - the Giants do everything from the top down, other teams use the creative power of their fan base to create new ways to share the experience from the bottom up. (In the software industry, Microsoft's top down approach can't come close to the reliability and usability of the Open Source bottom up development model. With all of their money and people, they were 4 years late in releasing their OS/X clone (Vista), and that didn't even work out very well. Microsoft can't even clone others' ideas as well as the Giants can. But that's a different story.)

So, your time line for various oen innovations seems pretty sound to me. However, what you consider to be "original," others may not. This is where personal opinion and preference come in. I understand the argument that a cheer ending in "kattobase player-name" is not original. Such cheers have been around since I went to my first game back in the 1980s. But what others are saying is that there is more to such cheers than just the ending. There are original lyrics leading up to that part, there are varying tempos, etc. The repetitive part is not original, but that is just a small part of a while work that is - is what others are saying. So such cheers are both original and not original at the same time. As is the case often in Japan, what most Westerners think of as two mutually exclusive concepts turn out to be complementary, coexisting without annihilating one another like matter and anti-matter.

Personally, I like Lotte's oen style. I like the simplicity and acoustics. I feel kind of guilty that it sounds like something one would hear at a football (soccer) game, but I like what they did with it. And all the bouncing out there looks like a good exercise, too. I'm just afraid that someday a section of stadium is going fall down due to harmonic resonance [YouTube] from all of that rhythmic stomping. Probably an unrealistic fear, but who says I have to always be rational?

I have had a similar feeling, seeing Marines routines essentially copied--particularly by the Giants fans but with little of the original flair.

The megabanner used to be a Marines thing (in baseball)--I can't say whether it hit the J-League before it got to Chiba Marine. When the Lions introduced one on opening day, complete with Nike logo, it was telling.

Not only is the Giants' banner an Adidas product, but the team takes care of it. After the fans leave Tokyo Dome, groundskeepers roll it up and attend to it.

One Opening Day at Seibu Dome between the Marines and Lions saw the Marines behind Johnny Kuroki rally to beat Matsuzaka. The fans doing their towel-waving, hopping chant massed behind the left-field screen were a sight that stunned a colleague from my company who'd spent his career covering CL teams.

Thus it was a major disappointment to see the Marines fans doing the jet balloons - been done by everyone.

Maybe a more careful listening to the actual songs would be productive. Deanna has detailed many of the other teams songs on her excellent website, but you seem to be deaf to these. Why not take a look at the variation in songs for the Tigers on my blog (one of the early pages)? Just because the beat is mostly the same (and I detail some differences in this in an earlier post) doesn't mean the songs are the same. They are different and the tunes are different as well. Something Marines fans have difficulty in mastering I'm afraid.

It's the same with other teams and don't delude yourself - no one is copying the Marines - Rakuten beats, for example, follow the more complex patterns and they also use the KO chance march (a la Tigers). Furthermore, don't delude yourself that a Marines/Giants game has the buzz of a Tigers/Giants game - it doesn't. Marines fans like to think they are special (which they are), but they are no more special than other groups of fans.

However, for noise they do not match other fan groups and a statement that they rocked Tokyo Dome more than Tigers/Giants is pure nonsense. Try it in the ninth with the Tigers fans chanting atto hitori and the Giants fans singing their chance march. There is no equivalent.

As for original - this is all very well, but if you are adapting football chants you are not very original at all. To be honest Marines chants are rather sad - I have spoken with many fans from other teams and they all regard the Marines oendan as rather pathetic. They are regarded as lacking humor and being simple. Once again, just because you use a standard beat doesn't mean you are unoriginal. Maybe your mistake is to confuse form with substance.

Kutabare means "destroy," and Tigers fans join in that song. There is nothing wrong with you being a Marines fan or enjoying the Marines chants. Just don't try to pretend that these are anything special or that the chants equal other teams in sophistication or style.

And as for Seibu not having much ouen - try to watch more. This is a baseless comment. I may be a Tigers fan (with the largest and most active oendan in Japan), but even I acknowledge that Seibu have a strong ouen.

Try also not to follow commentators who are biased to Lotte but be a bit more objective. The Giants were the first to use the towels.

I guess we probably will not reach any kind of agreement, nevertheless I do enjoy this conversation as it seems as we all enjoy the atmosphere of Japanese baseball. I know the lyrics to a few Hanshin tunes and could play them on trumpet, but yeah, they all sound pretty much the same to me.

When Hanshin lost to Yakult in 1992 at Koshien and there was a Yakult do-age, the Hanshin fans started yelling "kaere." And when Hanshin won in 2005 and the police made sure no one would jump into Dotonbori and the government had put up fences and riots started to break out in Osaka, I thought, hmmmm, I don't know. Not saying Marines fans are perfect. I don't mind passion, but when it gets negative, which I feel Hanshin fans have been quite a few times, ...

The Hanshin bleachers have a tendency to have a negative vibe. The "Hotaru no hikari" which Hanshin play when there is a pitcher change, is to mock the opposition, as that song is played in Japan in dramatic farewells such as graduation and new years eve. Enatsu, the former Tiger pitcher, has a column in Daily Sports where he wrote that Hanshin fans' mocking the opposition singing Hotaru no hikari should not call themselves Hanshin fans once.

I have been to Tokyo Dome and have seen many Giants vs. Tigers games. I can't count how many times I have watched the Giants there, but it is a lot. I have seen Hanshin many many times, too, whenever they were in Kanto; and yes, the atmosphere is electric and the Marines' popularity can not be compared with the 2 big teams. But all I am saying is that when the bleachers are filled up with Marines fans it is louder and more electric than any other team who fills up the bleachers. Marines fans do not have the the sheer number, so they cannot fill up the stands in Kansai or Hokkaido though, unlike Hanshin who can fill up any stadium in Japan.

The towel waving was started by Marines fans. Do not take my word for it, take NHK's. It is a known fact that the Giants copy the Marines. The "Go Go Nioka" is also a pakuri from the Marines.

The Marines started the beat [YouTube].

When a Giants player gets a hit, the Giants fans yell out the player's name. The Marines fans started that, too. Most other teams play the same drum beat; a 3,3,7 beat. The difference is that Marines players then thank the fans whereas a Giant player will ignore them.

Yes, the Marines' ouen is inspired by J-League, but they at least change it and make it their own style which is different from what many other teams do. Such teams basically rip off Marines' ideas. I guess the Inaba jump is inspired by Lotte, but they have changed it into their own style. The Giants, on the other hand, used to have the same type of ouen as other teams, but at around the year 2000 or so they started sounding like the Marines, when the Marines already had their distinct style.

The Marines' ouendan wear the same jerseys as other fans unlike other teams because they feel a part of them and not above them, the team then has a jersey hanging in the dugout representing the fans. So you have the ouendans, fans, and the team with Bobby Valentine all united into one. It is a great concept and the idea is catching on.

The Marines together with Nippon Ham are probably the 2 teams which are increasing most in popularity now in Japan. And much of the reason to why Lotte is increasing in popularity is because of the fans.

The lyrics are easy to sing therefore people do sing, so you actually hear people singing and the chants do not get drowned into drums, horns, and plastic bats like other teams.

This is Lotte's big flag theme [YouTube]. Oretachi no hokori. Our pride.

Giants and Lions versions are really sad compared with this version. I don't think any other team should do this. They should do something original like Yakult with the umbrellas.

I know little about Rakuten's ouen. I know that trumpets are banned there. But they use trumpets in other stadiums. I hope their fan base grows.

Teams with little support, in my view, are Seibu, Yakult, and Yokohama. I think Seibu and Yakult have even less ouen support than Yokohama. If you go to Tokyo Dome, which is only 20 minutes from Jingu, there are hardly any Yakult fans there. Strange. The same with the Lions in Makuhari. They don't come and support their team.

The big Marines "flag" is impressive, but completely lifted from football (soccer). Not that there's anything wrong with incorporating good ideas thinking outside of the box. But it's difficult to claim that, that it's a Marines' "original." The Marines supporters have worked together with soccer supporters (Urawa Reds, I believe) to come up with their current cheers.

Your unrequited devotion to the Marines supporters is impressive, but seems to have rather large blind spots.

Seibu draws poorly (2008's success saw a big jump in attendance that brought them to the middle of the pack), so the flag idea is rather brilliant because it makes even a rather sparse crowd appear more numerous thanks to the flag waving. Very different situation from the well supported Marines (and I was really impressed by the Marines fans when I saw them in the Asia Series and at Marine Stadium).

Hanshin fans are the most passionate in Japan it is true and this does create problems. As you rightly point out it can get very negative. Hanshin bleachers though tend to have a party atmosphere most of the time and a rare sense of humour. This is directed at both the opposition and the Tigers. When the Oendan sing a song about one of the Tigers' stars Hinoki wood bath then the opposition have to watch out. Enatsu did speak out against singing 'Auld Lang Syne' and the Oendan ignored him - these are Osaka people, they are not deferential just because you are a former Tigers star. It is also true that Tigers fans are considered rude (ato hitori and ato ikyu are both sung when other groups of fans would be quiet - when the opposition is batting) but why should fans give the opposition an easy ride?

The major flaw in your argument though is to think that if other teams borrow from Lotte then they are copyists and unoriginal but somehow Lotte borrowing from another sport is original. It's still copying and just as unoriginal no matter how much the songs are modified. The Giants borrowing of the chant 'Go, go Nioka' (and how can you be sure that it didn't come about by coincidence?) is also original by your definition as it is modified to mention a Giants player. To be honest though, I can't understand where you get the idea that the Giants Oendan is beginning to sound like Lotte's. To my mind the Giants are one of the most musical oendans with nice catchy tunes to their chants - something Lotte cannot be accused of.

A note on the No. 26 idea - it is appealling to most non-Japanese but most non-Lotte Japanese fans of my acquaintance consider it a marketing gimmick. They much prefer being able to customize their shirts and accessories. I should stress I am not talking about just Tigers fans here but all other teams fans. If we look at the Tigers oendan you can still see Randy Bass and Mayumi and other stars of the past shirts and it supplies a nice link to the past indicating a continuity and commitment over time. The sheer variety of decoration also makes for a colourful spectacle. A different concept but an attractive one.

I also feel you do the Yokohama oendan a disservice. It's quite active and whilst I may not like the stadium, Yokohama fans turn out in large numbers for Tigers games and generate a nice atmosphere. If only the stadium management were not so petty. The Lions stadium is a long haul and given the hours people work it is often not possible for them to make the journey especially during the week. It is not like Osaka where people leave work early to go to Koshien to watch Tigers. Yakult though have difficulty getting fans in even to Jingu - they are very badly undersupported.

As I mentioned there is nothing wrong with you liking Lotte and enjoying the experience. It is the thought that the Lotte oendan are somehow original and trend setters. Like everyone else they are derivative and the illusion of originality is just that. I, personally, find the Lotte oendan banal, simplistic and unoriginal but I can quite see how others might find their approach refreshing. It's just the thought that they lead other oendan which is mistaken.

Anyhow. The team who started using trumpets in their ouen was the Hiroshima Carp. In 1975 Carp fans implemented the trumpet. In 1978 Koji Yamamoto was the first player who got his personal baseball chant. Then Kingugasa was the second player who got his personal chant, then it started to spread to other teams. So in terms of being original, it was the Hiroshima Tokyo Carp fans who were the originals in implementing chants to players in pro ball.

There have been lots of debates about this ouen. Many in Japan want to go back to the times where there were no trumpets, have a more MLB type of atmosphere in stands with no trumpet and drums. So various teams have had, in the past, special days where there has been no ouen. Where drums and trumpets have been banned. But this idea hasn't caught on, and today I do not think any teams have such special days any more.

Certain players, like former Giants Nakahata, were advocates for ouen. He would say in public how much he enjoyed his own chant. Shinjo, too, I remember used to say that the louder it is in the stands the more fired up he'd get.

I, myself, do not mind ouen, but these days I prefer not to participate so much and rather focus more on games from the infield, and I do sincerely believe the Marines have the best chants. I am sure Christopher and others will agree.

Everybody stand up and sing. Here is Iguchi's new chant. The lyrics are:

Lalala. Sa tachi agare, Iguchi. Misete kure.
Lalala. Kihaku no ichida. Iguchi. Misete kure.

Iguchi hitto.

Not sure if it is misetekure on the first line or not.


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