Arias: Tigers' Bessing or Curse?

I'm related to him, and I only have one question for you? What is your batting average and do you have a world series ring?

To the person who is a curse, George is a blessing for the Tigers.

What is your batting average and do you have a world series ring?

Arias doesn't have a World Series ring. The closest he came was in 1998, when he played on the Padres, who lost the World Series 4-0 to the Yankees. George didn't have a single at-bat in those four games and, judging from his .194 average and 16 K's in 36 at-bats that season, he probably would've struck out if he did.

And the only reason Arias ended up in San Diego was because he bombed with the Angels, who had been looking for a third baseman they could rely on since Doug DeCinces was put out to pasture (and went to Japan) and Arias never gave them that though the position was wide open for him. Not to jump on George's case particularly, but let's be realistic here.

Btw, he's hitting better now, even if Hanshin is now one game under .500 since that seven game win streak to open the season. He'll be okay as long as he tries to go to the opposite field more against the far better pitching he sees in the CL as opposed to that he saw in the PL. If he continues to pull everything, though, he'll never hit for a respectable average in
that league.

That was two questions, and I'm not related.

Look, I have been an opponent and teammate of Mr. Arias and in his defense none of you have the ability to scrutinize his play. Westbay-san wasn't exactly attacking George either. He was bringing up a what do you think? topic. Now if you guys are done on the outside looking in? He's now in the .240 range, he said he was "trying to get a feel for the new league and it's pitchers." Now that sounds like pretty good common sense to me? As far as his MLB career he was never given the job completely. A month or two does not a whole season make!! Have you ever seen a star in any league have a bad month or two (I think so)? He'll hit in the .260-.280 range with 30+ HR's. So to all relax and enjoy the season. Oh yes he was still pulling his weight that first month w/11hr's and 23+rbi. He's hardly the reason the Tigers will sink like the Titanic this season. You can point that finger at the "Jerk-Off" Hoshino, and his pitcher burnout ways!!!

> Look, I have been an opponent and teammate of Mr.
> Arias and in his defense none of you have the ability
> to scrutinize his play. Westbay-san wasn't exactly
> attacking George either. He was bringing up a what do
> you think? topic.

Scrutinize? I don't know. Comment on? Definitely.
If the man ain't hitting, the man ain't hitting. By the same token, if the man is hitting, then the man is hitting. You don't need years of pro experience to tell that.

Yes Scrutinize! It's not about years of pro experience It's about common sense. The man was brought in to drive in runs and hit for power, which he had done. Now ragging on personal stats is a bit more critical than just an average comment? Ya think? I understand that there are alot of "wannabe Peter Gammons out there but c'mon. It would make perfect sense to be critical if he were brought in to steal bases and was failing to reach base but that wasn't the case. He was and is doing what he was brought in to do. And save your little attitude! I have the same right to express my views, (With the exception of actually being on the field with an inside knowledge of the game) we are exactly the same!

Look, I have been an opponent and teammate of Mr. Arias ...

Really? On what teams? What's your name? Or did your uniform read "Teammate?"

... in his defense none of you have the ability to scrutinize his play. ... As far as his MLB career he was never given the job completely. A month or two does not a whole season make!! Have you ever seen a star in any league have a bad month or two (I think so)?

I wish Arias success but he was a mediocre MLB player (at best) and all the excuses and appeals to authority in the world won't change that fact.

Thank you all who have come to my defense with the disgruntled reader. An interesting study on the program "Special Research 200X" a number of years ago showed that for any service, 20% of the "customers" will be dissatisfied. I think the service I provide has a better satisfaction rate than that.

I posted the article because I thought it was interesting. How often do you see somebody leading the league in home runs while trailing in battting average? It was essentially the same as an article in Nikkan Sports with some additional information on other players like Hiyama leading the league in hitting.

Since that time, Arias hit home run #12 in a game that Hanshin didn't win, losing his "good luck" status with hitting home runs. On the other hand, he's raised his average to .246, currently ranked 26th out of 35. That's great. But not nearly as "interesting" as being on the top and bottom simultaniously, and thus, not as news worthy.

I tend to write about Japanese baseball based on the materials available to the typical Japanese. "Mezurashii" stats are often printed in the Japanese press, and when I find them interesting, I throw them out here for you all to comment on. I like it when someone comments on the news that I translate and put out there for you. Whether you agree or disagree with me doesn't matter. In fact, I like to read about differing points of view. I hold comments with evidence to back up a different point of view to be the highest.

The few times I've run into member of the mainstream English press, their attitude has also been, "by what right do you write about Japanese baseball?" The answer is simple. I care enough about the game to start up a web log about it. You have the same right. If you want to start up an Arias page, I'd be more than happy to link to it and send Pro Yakyu fans your way.

I don't consider myself a "wannabe Peter Gammons" (who is he anyway?). I'm just a computer programmer who is a huge baseball fan that, when looking for information on Japanese baseball on the Internet in 1995 found none. So instead of complaining that there wasn't anything, I started providing some. Over the years, the mainstream press finally started writing on the Internet as well, but they don't provide a satisfactory method for other fans to discuss articles further. I don't write and maintain this site for money (how many ads do you see here?), I write it out of love for the game and because I enjoy meeting and discussing baseball with so many of you from around the world. I enjoy seeing differing opinions. I hold your opinion to be as valuable as my own. I believe that you have as much right to "set the record straight" as I have to write what I observe. If it promotes communication and a better understanding of the game, please inform us of what you think about an article.

There are many ways to contribute to this site that will help more than challenging anyones' right to write about Japanese baseball. I'd especially love to hear more from people with "inside knowlege" like family members and real players. I don't have any biographical data on Arias' page. What kinds of career highlights would you (his relations) like to see? Players, feel free to write your own short autobiographies. If I misinterpret my observations of the game from the "outside," insiders, please set me straight - with supporting evidence.

I'm getting a bit off topic here, and am now late for softball practice. Got to go. But the point I wanted to make was that everyone is welcome to their opinion. Now, let's enjoy the game, shall we?

I was in no way refering to you or Mr. Garland as "wannabe's" this is directed at the same guys who are always at the stadiums asking for an autograph then after recieving it they're screaming you suck! Or making smart remarks about your career, I guess it would just be nice to get a little respect from people for what we do. It's not easy, I don't comment on things like how you screwed up this computer program! Not that you have, but the point being I just enjoy your work. Now wouldn't it be nice to not Bitch about how bad he sucked in the Major Leagues? Giving the same respect you would like to recieve. As stated earlier this isn't directed to westbay or Garland.

> I was in no way refering to you or Mr. Garland as
> "wannabe's" this is directed at the same guys who are
> always at the stadiums asking for an autograph then
> after recieving it they're screaming you suck! Or
> making smart remarks about your career, I guess it
> would just be nice to get a little respect from
> people for what we do. It's not easy, I don't comment
> on things like how you screwed up this computer
> program! Not that you have, but the point being I
> just enjoy your work. Now wouldn't it be nice to not
> Bitch about how bad he sucked in the Major Leagues?
> Giving the same respect you would like to recieve. As
> stated earlier this isn't directed to westbay or
> Garland.

I've never been a fan of booing, myself, except for the good natured booing of a member of the opposing team of the one I'm rooting for. And I would never boo a member of the team I'm rooting for. I've never saw the sense of it. By the same token, though, I've never seen the sense in asking for a player's autograph. I have no idea why anyone would place any value on someone's name. I once met Matsuzaka Daisuke in a hotel. I was content to shake his hand and wish him good-luck. My then-girlfriend got him to sign two pieces of paper, and gave one to me. I have no idea what happened to it. I think I lost it when moving.

I've digressed. Anyway, the point I'd like to make is that no one here is receiving anyone's autograph and then saying "You suck!". If someone were to post a message saying "Arias sucks!" and nothing else, I daresay his/her message would not be taken very seriously. Not even if they wrote, "I'm an ex-ballplayer, and Arias sucks!" All posts are ultimately judged by the value they bring to the discussion.

And that's what this forum is: a place for fans to discuss baseball. In any discussion of baseball there are going to be negative comments and criticism. This is a fact of life. No one means anything personal about it. If someone says "Tony Perez was pretty much ineffectual and a waste of a roster spot for Hanshin last year," that doesn't reflect on Tony Perez as a person. The comment may or may not be supportable, it may indeed be quite arguable. But anyone who follows baseball and has elementary analytical and critical thinking skills has the right to make that comment. The credibility test comes not in how much ball they played, but in how well they can support their arguments.

I just want to echo Michael-san's comments. I'll fess up to the fact that I'm no pro scout, but then again, I do provide info in my writing for Baseball Guru that you won't find anywhere else on the web in English, period.

Moreover, when you're a ballplayer, people such as myself, who are fans, are going to argue over the worth of players. You should see some of the stuff that's showing up about Nick Johnson on the Yankees board on AOL, for example. Whatever criticism of Arias I may have is pretty lightweight compared to the stuff Yankees fans throw at their own players. You can say that George never got a fair chance with the Angels or the Padres, but those teams are run by baseball people with knowledge that waaaaaaaaay outstrips mine and they evidently weren't impressed. Are you saying that Bruce Bochy has no business judging talent? Carlos Pena has a lot more talent than Arias ever had and yet just got sent to the minors. So are you going to tell me that Art Howe and Billy Beane don't know what they're doing?

Again, I don't have anything against George Arias (and if you would read my articles for Baseball Guru, you would see that). But when somebody is having trouble hitting their weight, as George was up until about two weeks ago, and is getting somewhere in the neighborhood of $1-2 million a year for it, that tends to invite negative attention. Ballplayers who are thinned skin should not be reading the press or some of these boards. As Satchel Paige once said about fried food, "it will only angry up the blood."

At least foreign players in Japan have one advantage: they can't read the local press where they sometimes get blasted (such as the time when Lotte manager Koji Yamamoto said that Frank Bolick, another failed Angel, and Derrick May were "getting in the way") or overhyped way beyond their actual ability (such as when Sports Nippon's Osaka edition printed a headline about Tom Evans, "The New Tigers Savior Has Arrived." So perhaps they should count their blessings.

- [T]his is directed at the same guys who are always at the stadiums asking for an autograph then after recieving it they're screaming you suck!

Thanks for clearing that up. And actually, I think that this is a good place to get that sort of thing off your chest. And I think you'll find support here, too. I know that I don't understand fans like that. And while I may say some things that are negative about players from time to time, it's always with the hope that they'll turn things around, as Arias has already started doing.

As an example, I don't like Mori-kantoku's brand of baseball, and wasn't too thrilled that he was taking over skippership of the BayStars. Is he a good manager? His record with the Lions says yes. And he's deserving of respect. Nonetheless, I feel that a great deal of Yokohama's trouble stems from him trying to fit the team into his mold, rather than adjusting his managing to fit the team.

For example, from 1998 through 2000, under Gondoh-kantoku, the BayStars led the Central League every year in batting, while having the fewest sacrifice bunts laid down. The "Machine Gun Offense" was unstoppable!. Late in the game, down by a few, they just wouldn't give up. And even without the long ball, they'd get hit after hit after hit. Win or lose, it seemed like it was always close.

In comes Mori-kantoku and bunting practice. Yokohama successfully sacrifice bunted 151 times last year, up from 61 the year before. And I can't even begin to count how many more times the sacrifice failed. While the "machine gun" did kick in, often with two outs, it just didn't seem to be the same exciting batting order as previous years. Given, the 'Stars managed to finish in third last year (although that's still bewildering to me).

And Mori-kantoku knows how to win (despite a 13 game losing streak this year). Jim Allen tried to prove his bunting strategy to not be effective in one of his guides a few years ago, but the data didn't jive with his hypothisis. I was thinking of showing how much of a difference in run production the change in strategy has cost the 'Stars from "I don't like the sacrifice" Gondoh-kantoku to "Mr. Kanri Yakyu" Mori-kantoku. But there really wasn't much of a change from 2000 to 2001.

Kinjyoh has gone from the leading hitter in 2000 to the league's current worst hitter as of today (5/28). He went from free swinging and occasionally bunting on his own to bunting on command after the change of managers. I wouldn't go out and curse at him in center field. When he comes up to bat, I'm alway rooting for him to get a hit. But I would say that I'd like to see Tanaka or someone else get the chance to take his spot in the line up.

Now that I've gone on record saying that, maybe Kinjyoh will get things together and make me look like a fool. That's fine with me, too.

Baseball is entertainment, and players don't always play up to the level they rehersed at. Some fans need to realize that players are only human and will hit a skid from time to time. Yelling obscenities at them isn't likely to help them out.

- I don't comment on things like how you screwed up this computer program!

Actually, I'd appriciate it if you did! If I have a bug in any of my programs, I'd very much like to know about it. It may be in a section that I don't use much, so I don't know about it unless someone complains about it. I've broken a number of pages here now and then while experimenting and didn't know about it for a couple of weeks. I know that some of my data is incorrect as I still find errors every now an then. I won't take any offense to anyone saying that I screwed up part of a program or some data. I'd rather correct the problem as soon as possible.

- Now wouldn't it be nice to not Bitch about how bad he sucked in the Major Leagues?

Ah, yes. 1908-san can be a bit blunt at times. He's made a lot of good comments in the past, and is very knowledgable about the game. He can be a bit confrontational at times. I read his comment to be a counter to the challenge of how many World Series rings I had. It was an emotional challenge and 1908-san countered with some compelling evidence.

Of course this discussion is geting very old very quickly! Arias hit a three-run homer today, and he seems to be getting the extra hits to gradually raise his average to something more in sync with his long ball.

But if I can just jump in and add something to the general debate. What I don't like is seeing criticism of certain players (or teams) based on stats alone. OK, if the guy ain't hitting, he ain't hitting, as somebody said. But exactly why ain't he hitting? I like to reserve judgment until I've seen with my own eyes what's happening at the plate. For example, there's a world of difference between how Arias treats an at-bat and how Mike Blowers for example dealt with his slump. Arias is more focused, he makes contact, hits the ball hard, while Blowers had a completely different attitude. Now even if the stats were similar (and maybe they weren't, I don't have them handy), the performances were not. And that's why Hoshino has stuck with Arias, and would have lost patience with Blowers (as Nomura did).

Another example involves Shinjo. He deserved every one of those gold gloves, yet we had Tokyo-based writers saying things like "Well next thing they'll be putting the gold glove awards in Corn Flakes packets" - or something to that effect. These sort of comments came from people who most probably only saw Shinjo play when he visited Tokyo, if at all.

The same goes for game summaries. I've seen some absolute garbage written in the mainstream press in Japan about certain games that I've seen on the TV, and I sometimes wonder whether it's the same game they're reporting. Of course what happens is that these games are usually in Kansai, and the Tokyo-based writer hasn't actually seen the game and he's either relying on a second hand report or just the scorecard.

Well, all points taken, but still some conflict. First being a player in no way makes me a G.M. but I also feel that working in my field (so to spreak) would qualify me in many ways to be an Expert? Well at least more qualified than let's say a fan.
Now to Mr. 1908, do you think I'm stupid? Why would I let you know my personal info? And no he was not the Hank Aaron of his time but does that have anything to do with Japanese Baseball? And what was being brought up about the ring was a National League Championship ring! Or did you not know that they recieve rings for that? I have no beef with anyone here, but you gotta admit some "comments" sure sound fairly close to that of the IGNORANT baseball fan. I'm not so self absorbed that I can't admit I may have jumped to conclusions. I'm sorry for that.
And last of all about autoghraphs I agree. But who is this Matsuzaka? Just kidding! Autoghraphs usually end up in the garbage anyway.

Now to Mr. 1908, do you think I'm stupid? Why would I let you know my personal info?

Why not? Many regulars on this board go by their real names and others -- like myself and CFiJ -- use a screenname but list our real names under our profiles (just click on 1908 and you'll see what I mean). You say we should take your word for it because you're a player, but your "expert" status rings pretty hollow without anything to back it up.

And no he was not the Hank Aaron of his time...

Hank Aaron? Let's not get ahead of ourselves. He wasn't the Shawon Dunston of his time.

...but does that have anything to do with Japanese Baseball?

Yep, it helps you make an educated guess about how well Arias will do in NPB. The leagues are different but even you have to admit that there's a correlation between success in one and success in another.

And what was being brought up about the ring was a National League Championship ring! Or did you not know that they recieve rings for that?

I did know that. But Mr. Preciado claimed that George had a World Series ring, not an NL Championship ring. (See start of thread.)

How was your educated guess treating you on Mike Greenwell? Or Kevin Mitchell? Or Bill Madlock? And I'm sure a genius as yourself clearly predicted Alonzo Powell to be a hit? He did little in the States to back up this clear indication theory. We could all see that Darrell May was gonna be a star with that 5.17 era in the big leagues. This is where I'm smarter than the average fan. "Stats don't mean very much in terms of talent!" And you are dead wrong to think otherwise. I can give you thousands of examples but that would be a waste of my time.

You can take the best hitter in Japan (Matsui) we'll say. His NPB stats don't carry any weight in the Major Leagues. He has to start over proving his worth. Now you take a MLB star, let's say Lance Berkman, he would have to do the same as Matsui to show his worth. Anything can happen when you change leagues for the worst or the best we don't know 'til later in the season. Look at Tuffy Rhodes. He didn't show much more than Arias in the Bigs but came here to be one of the better player in the League. Things tend to slide a little when guys go from the A.L. to the N.L. Did you ever stop to think why? Or did you just say "judging from his stats he'll probably just strike out anyway."? Didn't Arias prove anything his first 2 years here? At the very least that he would make the adjustments that he may not have been given the time to in the BIG Leagues? But you might not take that into consideration being that you're quick to judge.

Let some of that Cub angst out! You sound like a real swell person. Lighten up a little.

And Mijow hit with accuracy and to the point. There's no need to defend your words Guru-san. You make pretty sensible evaluations. At least show that there was some time and thought to your responses.

And yes this is getting old. Let's move on to something else? In time I will reveal my identity but not until I pick up my stats. I couldn't bare to be ragged on by 1908! HA HA.

Save your boasts, save your lectures and save your insults. I said correlation, not clear indication -- think Ichiro, Sasaki, Ishii, Fielder, etc -- and I couldn't disagree more about the value of statistics. Sure, anything can happen, but using stats improves the accuracy of guess work. Does that mean that it's always right? Of course not.

Furthermore, your assertion that prior performance doesn't carry any weight is laughable. MLB teams will get into a bidding war over Matsui this fall because of what he's done in NPB. Why? Because his NPB stats have predictive value. I could cite a thousand other examples of this but I don't want to waste my time either.

I agree. This has run its course. Good luck picking up your stats, oh brave combatant.

Ah, yes. 1908-san can be a bit blunt at times. He's made a lot of good comments in the past, and is very knowledgable about the game. He can be a bit confrontational at times. I read his comment to be a counter to the challenge of how many World Series rings I had. It was an emotional challenge and 1908-san countered with some compelling evidence.

Guilty as charged.

The topic here is an old one from last season, though Arias continues with the Tigers this year, and so more discussion may follow yet.

I feel that in baseball the cumulative stats do tell us general things, and by that yardstick Mr. Arias is a fair-to-good player in the Central League -- nothing more, nothing less. As a frequent fan at Koshien last summer, what I noticed was Mr. Arias' fine defensive work in the field, attention at the plate, ability to deliver in the clutch, and adaptability to the Japanese style of play -- the latter being a quality not always witnessed in American players of the Japanese leagues.

In particular I recall Arias' post-game "hero interview" when he had delivered the winning single in the ninth (an early August game, I believe against the Dragons) in which he referred repeatedly to his devotion to the team's welfare and finished by leading a chorus of "Never, Never Surrender." The crowd went bananas. Mr. Arias is clearly a team player, and that is a big part of success on, and in, any field in Japan.

That said, I agree with an early posting here that called into question Hoshino's use of his pitchers. How many times I screamed at that TV set last summer I can't remember. I fear the Tigers are doomed to late-season freefall again this year, no matter how well they play in April and May. Because all those fabulous arms will be dead, particularly Mr. Moore's. Someone deliver this team from no. 77, please, and they could find themselves in the Japan Series.

Strictly as a fan, and the rare gaijin female one at that, may I add that Mr. Arias possesses one of the cuter bods in the Japanese major leagues. He has many admirers all over Kansai who cannot tell a strike from a -- hmm -- ball boy.

Sara B. (New York / Osaka)

From SanSpo:

Arias, 19 at-bats without hit; avg. below .200

April 23, Nagoya - The only batter in the Hanshin line-up posing batting problems for the team is No. 6, George Arias. Arias again ended a game without a hit today, a total of 19 consecutive hitless trips to the mound. Over the past 8 games, Arias has been in a terrible slump, with figures of 26 at bats, 1 hit, avg.: 0.38. His season average has dropped to .195.

Said coach Tabuchi, "Arias? Well, that's for the kantoku to decide. In the end it all comes down to the kantoku." While avoiding saying that Arias is on the brink of being dumped from the starting line-up, the issue is clearly one of just how much more poor form the Hanshin coaches will tolerate from Arias. During the team's winning streak, other players' form disguised Arias' poor showing, but with Kataoka on the bench, Arias must either perform or pay the price.

>- [snip] 19 consecutive hitless trips to the mound.[snip]

Perhaps he'd do better if he took trips to the plate instead of the mound! On the other hand, I could just be more careful when I translate newspaper stories . (And to think I do this for a living!)

I just tuned into the Hanshin site [HanshinTigers.jp] to start "watching" the game as I work.

Arias has been replaced by Kataoka.

Arias benched in favor of Kataoka! Watashi wa kanashii yo! Warui da na...

Sara B, you might be even sadder to hear he was cut from the club last year.

Arias is currently with the Tijuana Colts of the Mexican League. Arias is batting .311 with 9 HR and 34 RBI. [Minor League Stats]

Never mind George, I'll keep watching the tapes I bought when I went to see the Tigers in 2004.

The Hanshin fans loved you in 2003/04 you will always be remembered by Tiger fans.

Did you know that Arias holds his high school, Jr. college, and university home run records? Not many players can say that at any level.

Thank you Jamie. How I ever wanted to know that four years after this post was originated.

4 years later, and fans still miss Arias. I do.

I wonder if they still miss Hoshino. I don't.

- I wonder if they still miss Hoshino. I don't.

I'd say more Hanshin fans miss Hoshino as manager than they do George Arias. Hoshino was bigger than life as manager of the Hanshin Tigers. Hoshino brought the Tigers to the Nippon Series and to the level of success the Tigers know today.

George Arias might of been a fan favorite, but it is very disputable to say that Tigers fans miss Arias more than Hoshino.

Among Japanese Tigers fans Hoshino is revered and they are very happy he is still with the club. He is considered as the ideal manager by a significant portion of the Japanese population as well.

Arias, whilst valued for the contribution he made, isn't as missed as say Randy Bass.

Perhaps, George Arias is coming back to Nippon Professional Baseball.

Yes, Arias was signed by the Yomiuri Giants to fill in for Hiroki Kobuko while he's out. Though the only question is, when Kobuko comes back where is he going to play?

My other thoughts on Arias are in another posting. But here is probably the place to note that Johji-san gets a nice write-up in the latest Tigers history book (a lovely photo book on sale at the Hanshin depaato and I presume other bookstores as well - give a look for it, yakyu fans), where mention is made of how beloved he was by the fans. That's a nice and proper way to remember Tiger no. 14 of 2001-04.

Of course he will never be recalled by Japanese fans in the same way as Hoshino-kantoku, who is a Kansai legend. But that's a different story altogether.

P.S. to the Arias story, that after his cut from Hanshin, he had tried to make the Washington Nationals in 2004 spring training and failed. I believe it was after this that he signed with the Mexican leagues. Arias is also recalled lovingly at Nat Bailey Stadium in Vancouver, where he was a star player for the A-level minor league Vancouver Canadians (a farm team for the Oakland A's). A truly cosmopolitan player.

Hello Sara B,

Just a few corrections about Arias, but you are right on the money when it comes to what Arias meant to the Tigers and even the BlueWave before he switched exits off the Rokkoliner.

Arias was a big fan favorite in Vancouver when he was with the California Angels in AAA (not A) in the Pacific Coast League.

And when it came time for Arias to end his playing days with Hanshin, it was more of a mutual decision rather than the Tigers cutting the star.

Hopefully, Arias-san will regain that stroke he had in 2003 so that the Giants will bring him back for 2007.

Thanks for your correction, Arias-fan. I had seen Johji-san's photo at Nat Bailey Stadium but failed to note that it was during Vancouver's AAA days. Wish those days would come back. When I want to see good Pacific Coast baseball I have to take the long bus ride to Seattle, though I am at least rewarded there with visions of Ichiro and Johjima. And I get to see my Hanshin Tigers most summers, too.