Misunderstanding Cripples Carp
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Re: Misunderstanding Cripples Carp
[ Author: Guest: null | Posted: Apr 7, 2002 1:06 PM
]
I'm not a Carp fan, but I am a Luis Lopez fan and I have to wholeheartedly agree with Mr. Westbaystars' sentiments. There is no way that Lopez is only thinking of himself and his statistics in that situation. If this happened late in the season with the Carp out of playoff contention, then Lopez's actions could be construed as selfish, but this is the start of the season, for Christ's sakes.
The only thing that could've possibly made Yamamoto view what Lopez did as selfish is if this kind of thing happened all the time with Lopez. However, just seeing the kind of player that Lopez is, I have to agree with Mr. Westbaystars-Lopez is just a highly competitive player. He is out there busting his butt every night on the field and he certainly doesn't seem like the kind of player who's only thinking of himself.
Although he does put up good stats every season, that's more a result of Lopez being a clutch player and less of him being a statistic-minded selfish player I think. Lopez has never been the kind of player who causes trouble by doing something like charging the mound-in fact, he seems like he's always playing the peacemaker when a fracas breaks out. This is just my guess, but Maeda must've given him attitude when Lopez asked him why he didn't try to score from second in the 8th inning after he had done the same in the 2nd inning.
If I was Lopez, I would do what Mr. Westbaystars said and ask for a meeting with both Yamamoto-kantoku and Maeda under normal circumstances and if that didn't work out, then I would ask for a trade. I know that Lopez didn't exactly tear up the Pacific League when he was with the Hawks, but I think every team, with the exception of the Giants maybe, would be happy to have an RBI machine like Lopez on their team.
The only thing that could've possibly made Yamamoto view what Lopez did as selfish is if this kind of thing happened all the time with Lopez. However, just seeing the kind of player that Lopez is, I have to agree with Mr. Westbaystars-Lopez is just a highly competitive player. He is out there busting his butt every night on the field and he certainly doesn't seem like the kind of player who's only thinking of himself.
Although he does put up good stats every season, that's more a result of Lopez being a clutch player and less of him being a statistic-minded selfish player I think. Lopez has never been the kind of player who causes trouble by doing something like charging the mound-in fact, he seems like he's always playing the peacemaker when a fracas breaks out. This is just my guess, but Maeda must've given him attitude when Lopez asked him why he didn't try to score from second in the 8th inning after he had done the same in the 2nd inning.
If I was Lopez, I would do what Mr. Westbaystars said and ask for a meeting with both Yamamoto-kantoku and Maeda under normal circumstances and if that didn't work out, then I would ask for a trade. I know that Lopez didn't exactly tear up the Pacific League when he was with the Hawks, but I think every team, with the exception of the Giants maybe, would be happy to have an RBI machine like Lopez on their team.
Re: Misunderstanding Cripples Carp
[ Author: HaruSaru | Posted: Apr 8, 2002 9:00 PM
| HC Fan
]
As a carp fan, I find this rather embarrassing...
I seriously don't think Lopez had the money in mind when he was trying to hit Maeda home from 2nd base(twice), but what I would like to know is what the coach on 3rd was doing.. Since I didn't see the game (I'm living in Norway) I'm not sure about the circumstances, but Maeda is a rather fast player and that he didn't go for a run is a bit strange.
Yamamoto-kantoku should definitely talk to Lopez and Maeda to try to find a solution to the problem, instead of just punishing Lopez...it doesn't gain anybody, but as Mr. Null was saying, there also had to be some attitude problem between Lopez and Maeda....
I just don't think Yamamoto did any good job in this case... Lopez is the best batter at the moment, and he is very important to the team.. and they are also facing Hanshin tomorrow, and a Lopez on the team could be the difference between winning and losing....
I seriously don't think Lopez had the money in mind when he was trying to hit Maeda home from 2nd base(twice), but what I would like to know is what the coach on 3rd was doing.. Since I didn't see the game (I'm living in Norway) I'm not sure about the circumstances, but Maeda is a rather fast player and that he didn't go for a run is a bit strange.
Yamamoto-kantoku should definitely talk to Lopez and Maeda to try to find a solution to the problem, instead of just punishing Lopez...it doesn't gain anybody, but as Mr. Null was saying, there also had to be some attitude problem between Lopez and Maeda....
I just don't think Yamamoto did any good job in this case... Lopez is the best batter at the moment, and he is very important to the team.. and they are also facing Hanshin tomorrow, and a Lopez on the team could be the difference between winning and losing....
Re: Misunderstanding Cripples Carp
[ Author: westbaystars | Posted: Apr 9, 2002 12:00 AM
| YBS Fan
]
I didn't see the game either. That was the extent of coverage in the newspaper - with a bit of personal opinion thrown in.
Maeda hit three doubles in the game, which tells me that his often injurred acheles tendends were doing fine. But you're asking the right question: What was the third base coach doing?
On a bright note, with Lopez being sent to 3-gun (generally regarded as the level one practices at while on the disabled list - since he's being forbidden to practice and/or play a game with 2-gun), Arai hit a grand slam last night in the Carp's 6-run first inning against Chunichi. They finished with an 8-6 victory. Arai went 0 for 3 after that, striking out twice, so I don't think he's necessarilly taken over the first base job quite yet.
Lopez has expressed regret over the skirmish with Maeda. He followed it up countering Yamamoto-kantoku's assertion that he was upset over his own stats, stating as I did, that he was only concerned with the team winning.
Please let there be some understanding in this world.
Maeda hit three doubles in the game, which tells me that his often injurred acheles tendends were doing fine. But you're asking the right question: What was the third base coach doing?
On a bright note, with Lopez being sent to 3-gun (generally regarded as the level one practices at while on the disabled list - since he's being forbidden to practice and/or play a game with 2-gun), Arai hit a grand slam last night in the Carp's 6-run first inning against Chunichi. They finished with an 8-6 victory. Arai went 0 for 3 after that, striking out twice, so I don't think he's necessarilly taken over the first base job quite yet.
Lopez has expressed regret over the skirmish with Maeda. He followed it up countering Yamamoto-kantoku's assertion that he was upset over his own stats, stating as I did, that he was only concerned with the team winning.
Please let there be some understanding in this world.
Re: Misunderstanding Cripples Carp
[ Author: Guest: Gary Garland | Posted: Apr 10, 2002 3:43 PM
]
Marty Kuehnert has rather a different take on this in today's Japan Times here.
In short, it appears that, if Kuehnert and Lopez are indeed correct, it was Maeda who started the set to in the dugout and that the Japanese press went on a "blame the foreigner" spree.
But to look at it from Maeda's point ot view, he ruptured his Achilles tendon in 1995 and had it operated on again in 2000 and is apparently afraid to go full bore on it right now. I can't say I blame him. But I can understand why Lopez was angry since it could have cost his team runs. Maeda is Japan's Eric Davis, a great talent whose injury history has derailed what, in my mind, could have been a Hall of Fame career. And given the Japanese tendency toward overcautiousness, it makes it hard for me to choose up sides here. I'll just say it's too bad it happened.
In short, it appears that, if Kuehnert and Lopez are indeed correct, it was Maeda who started the set to in the dugout and that the Japanese press went on a "blame the foreigner" spree.
But to look at it from Maeda's point ot view, he ruptured his Achilles tendon in 1995 and had it operated on again in 2000 and is apparently afraid to go full bore on it right now. I can't say I blame him. But I can understand why Lopez was angry since it could have cost his team runs. Maeda is Japan's Eric Davis, a great talent whose injury history has derailed what, in my mind, could have been a Hall of Fame career. And given the Japanese tendency toward overcautiousness, it makes it hard for me to choose up sides here. I'll just say it's too bad it happened.
Re: Misunderstanding Cripples Carp
[ Author: westbaystars | Posted: Apr 10, 2002 7:33 PM
| YBS Fan
]
Well, Kuehnert-san and I agree on something, that this matter needs to have a mediator to get both sides out and an understanding brought to the forefront. It's good to get Lopez' side of the story first hand. Now, if only Kuehnert-san could use his contacts within the establishment to bring about an understanding...
I'm aware of Maeda's recurring ankle problems, and the article I had read mentioned them as the reason he didn't score. But how did he hit three doubles in the game with such bad ankles? It just doesn't make sense! I regret that I elected to watch a different game that day.
I just hope that somebody who has connections with the Carp tell them what is obvious to even Kuehners-san, exactly what I said several days ago, that somebody needs to sit down with all the people involved and show that this was just a bad misunderstanding.
I'm aware of Maeda's recurring ankle problems, and the article I had read mentioned them as the reason he didn't score. But how did he hit three doubles in the game with such bad ankles? It just doesn't make sense! I regret that I elected to watch a different game that day.
I just hope that somebody who has connections with the Carp tell them what is obvious to even Kuehners-san, exactly what I said several days ago, that somebody needs to sit down with all the people involved and show that this was just a bad misunderstanding.
Re: Misunderstanding Cripples Carp
[ Author: Guest: Masamune69 | Posted: Apr 10, 2002 4:11 PM
]
hi,i'm new here and before making any comments i'd like to confess that there was this individual who seems to have posted an unfriendly comment over the Seattle Mariners board and for some reason that person left a link to this site and that is why i came here.
but fortunately, so far nobody have yet to make a reply on this individual's bashing comment so i won't make a big deal out of this.(i just wanted to report that to you in case you are familiar with that person)
well, anyway, back to the topic about lopez vs maeda thing. first of all, i don't live there so i have no way of knowing how the japanese players have played in the games except watching the Sports section on Yahoo. but i just happened to read this article about "johgai"fight between lopez and maeda last night and based on what i have read, maeda obviously had some pain on his foot just like what you have mentioned and he still is having this nagging pain and that was why he couldn't head home because he was so slow (even though the guy had some doubles during the game). now, the problem, from what i see, is that why the manager didn't use a PR for the guy when he can't even push to score a run because of his foot. i mean the guy stopped not only once but twice for that reason? Yamamoto should have replaced him since he knows as good as anybody that Lopez is a RBI machine but i guess it's a different story if THAT situation happened during the first half of the game in which you likely won't take out a player who is in the heart of the lineup.
btw what's up with this 3rd base coach? i can't seem to recognize the issue here. was he waving maeda home when lopez had a rbi situation or what?
but fortunately, so far nobody have yet to make a reply on this individual's bashing comment so i won't make a big deal out of this.(i just wanted to report that to you in case you are familiar with that person)
well, anyway, back to the topic about lopez vs maeda thing. first of all, i don't live there so i have no way of knowing how the japanese players have played in the games except watching the Sports section on Yahoo. but i just happened to read this article about "johgai"fight between lopez and maeda last night and based on what i have read, maeda obviously had some pain on his foot just like what you have mentioned and he still is having this nagging pain and that was why he couldn't head home because he was so slow (even though the guy had some doubles during the game). now, the problem, from what i see, is that why the manager didn't use a PR for the guy when he can't even push to score a run because of his foot. i mean the guy stopped not only once but twice for that reason? Yamamoto should have replaced him since he knows as good as anybody that Lopez is a RBI machine but i guess it's a different story if THAT situation happened during the first half of the game in which you likely won't take out a player who is in the heart of the lineup.
btw what's up with this 3rd base coach? i can't seem to recognize the issue here. was he waving maeda home when lopez had a rbi situation or what?
Re: Misunderstanding Cripples Carp
[ Author: westbaystars | Posted: Apr 10, 2002 8:27 PM
| YBS Fan
]
I must confess, I don't read the Seattle Mariners' board, so I'm not sure what I can say about comments there. Were they about the Lopez vs. Maeda fiasco?
Your point on why Yamamoto-kantoku didn't put in a pinch runner in the 8th is very good. You're thinking like a good manager - a player fails to score from second early in the game, he's on second again late in the game, a pinch runner would be a good idea. And, of course, hind sight pretty much screams out that such a change would have been for the best. But then, Maeda hit his third double of the game the very next inning, so he couldn't have been in that bad a shape.
The only reason I can think of as to why Yamamoto-kantoku is so set to protect and continue to play Maeda in this incident is because Maeda was one of the speedy Carp that sparkled during his first stint as manager from 1989-1993. You know how some managers get particularly attached to a lineup? Maeda, Nishiyama, and Ogata were all regulars during that first managerial period, and were all in the lineup yesterday. Nomura is another regular from that time period, but I believe is currently injurred. (Does anyone know for sure?)
When Yamamoto-kantoku said that he was going to have an easier camp this spring to try to keep his team heathy all season (as they usually poop out the second half), I thought he was on the right track. He's always seemed like a reasonable person to me as well, so his attitude in this strikes me as odd. It's not like Hiroshima hasn't won any games (like Lotte), putting pressure on him to produce (or distract attention away from him). There must be a reason for this.
You and another person brought up the third base coach. I'm still hoping to hear from somebody who saw the game and can comment on that one. Of course, the base coach never gets any attention paid to him by the press or the highlight reels, so there's still an information void there. Where are the Hiroshima fans?
Your point on why Yamamoto-kantoku didn't put in a pinch runner in the 8th is very good. You're thinking like a good manager - a player fails to score from second early in the game, he's on second again late in the game, a pinch runner would be a good idea. And, of course, hind sight pretty much screams out that such a change would have been for the best. But then, Maeda hit his third double of the game the very next inning, so he couldn't have been in that bad a shape.
The only reason I can think of as to why Yamamoto-kantoku is so set to protect and continue to play Maeda in this incident is because Maeda was one of the speedy Carp that sparkled during his first stint as manager from 1989-1993. You know how some managers get particularly attached to a lineup? Maeda, Nishiyama, and Ogata were all regulars during that first managerial period, and were all in the lineup yesterday. Nomura is another regular from that time period, but I believe is currently injurred. (Does anyone know for sure?)
When Yamamoto-kantoku said that he was going to have an easier camp this spring to try to keep his team heathy all season (as they usually poop out the second half), I thought he was on the right track. He's always seemed like a reasonable person to me as well, so his attitude in this strikes me as odd. It's not like Hiroshima hasn't won any games (like Lotte), putting pressure on him to produce (or distract attention away from him). There must be a reason for this.
You and another person brought up the third base coach. I'm still hoping to hear from somebody who saw the game and can comment on that one. Of course, the base coach never gets any attention paid to him by the press or the highlight reels, so there's still an information void there. Where are the Hiroshima fans?
Re: Misunderstanding Cripples Carp
[ Author: Guest: null | Posted: Apr 10, 2002 8:52 PM
]
I just finished reading Mr. Kuehnert's article on this matter, and it turns out that my guess was indeed correct about Maeda giving Lopez attitude when Lopez asked him why he didn't try to score on those two plays. Of course, Kuehnert's only heard one side of the story, so we can't be sure that Maeda did actually bum rush Lopez like Lopez claims. Just like Mr. Westbaystars was saying, I'm also wondering why Yamamoto-kantoku took such a firm stance against Lopez.
Another poster hit the nail on the head when he compared Maeda with Eric "If I hadn't had so many injuries I would've ended up in the Hall-of-Fame IMHO" Davis. I don't know who's more brittle: Eric Davis or Maeda? They've been inducted into my always injured Hall-of-Fame along with Ken Griffey Jr., Chris Chandler of the Atlanta Falcons and Kevin Johson, formerly of the Phoenix Suns.
Another poster hit the nail on the head when he compared Maeda with Eric "If I hadn't had so many injuries I would've ended up in the Hall-of-Fame IMHO" Davis. I don't know who's more brittle: Eric Davis or Maeda? They've been inducted into my always injured Hall-of-Fame along with Ken Griffey Jr., Chris Chandler of the Atlanta Falcons and Kevin Johson, formerly of the Phoenix Suns.
Re: Misunderstanding Cripples Carp
[ Author: mijow | Posted: Apr 10, 2002 10:53 PM
| HT Fan
]
Well all I can say, as a Hanshin fan, is that I'm glad the Yamamoto took Lopez out of the lineup. In a close game (as tonight's was) Lopez may have made the difference. So we'll take the win and move further ahead while Lopez languishes in baseball limbo
Re: Misunderstanding Cripples Carp
[ Author: Guest: Kimura0 | Posted: Jun 21, 2003 1:24 PM
]
This isn't good. The Carp are already struggling, and even if since this dispute they have been playing okay (not too bad at all really), when this issue resurfaces and Lopez is allowed to play with the main team, is it going to cause friction?
I don't know much about the psychology of Japanese baseball, but I do know that when two sides believe they are both "in the right" it can lead to some very unfriendly play. I want to see this done and hosed, and hopefully in time for the Carp to whup Hanshin!
I don't know much about the psychology of Japanese baseball, but I do know that when two sides believe they are both "in the right" it can lead to some very unfriendly play. I want to see this done and hosed, and hopefully in time for the Carp to whup Hanshin!
Re: Misunderstanding Cripples Carp
[ Author: westbaystars | Posted: Jun 22, 2003 7:12 AM
| YBS Fan
]
I think you need to check the date. That was last season. Lopez is no longer with the Carp.
Re: Misunderstanding Cripples Carp
[ Author: Guest: Carp Baseball | Posted: Jun 26, 2003 7:57 AM
]
After watching Carp baseball for years, it's pretty obivious, it's time for the Carp to make managerial and coaching staff changes. Bad decisions have been made and no decisions have been made to give the younger guys a chance to shine. Yes, the Lopez-Maeda situation was probrably an ugly one.
As a Manager, I would of definitely had a meeting with Lopez and Maeda and the bottom line, held both accountable and sent both players to the minors for their actions, period. Not tolerate it. This is why?
As a Manager, I would of definitely had a meeting with Lopez and Maeda and the bottom line, held both accountable and sent both players to the minors for their actions, period. Not tolerate it. This is why?
a. It really destroys the team's morale when their teammates squable with each other.
b. They're suposedly "professionals" and should know how to act.
c. The Manager should have been equal with his decision by repremanding both players.
d. Most of all, I would of had the third base coaches rear end for his brain farts.
e. Yes, this all would have been done behind closed doors.
In any sport played, you need to play it with "intensity, pumped up, and with the end in mind: win," and not be wishy washy.
A good example is Hanshin Tigers' Manager Hoshino. He will tear you up! He reminds me of my high school and American Liegion coach. That's why the Tigers are in 1st place. There's no question in my mind that the Tigers will be the champs this year and for many years to come.
By the way, I like all teams. But when I see bad decisions being made, ... I've been to Carp games. Horrible decisons. No production. Arai is a weak spot in both offense and defense, but yet continues to be in the line up. It's time for a change. The fans support their Carps. However, look at their average attendance. It says a lot.
You have an awesome baseball week.
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After both men were brought around to score thanks to a walk and a pair of hits in the 8th, Lopez called Maeda to the back of the dug out to explain the circumstances. According to Nikkan Sports, Lopez then started striking Maeda, who started fighting back. Yamamoto-kantoku, Matsuhara-chief coach, Nomura, and two other players jumped in and broke their two team mates up.
When everything was settled, Lopez was sent to the showers and is being sent to 2-gun for a minimum of 10 days starting today. Lopez appealled that it was a minunderstanding, but Yamamoto-kantoku appears to have already made up his mind. Yamamoto-kantoku says that he doesn't need a player on his team that is only thinking of himself.
What? Where did that come from? I know. You and I see this incident as Lopez thinking he had come through for the team with an RBI, but Maeda held up, letting down the team. Nikkan Sports, though, commented that Lopez has incentives in his contract for RBIs, and was upset about Maeda not contributing. I'm sorry, I don't think that Lopez had money on his mind when Maeda held up at third. He's competitive, and was most likely upset that the team didn't get a run.
Now, Yamamoto-kantoku said that the Carp didn't need such a player playing for himself, and isn't sure he'll be called back up after this penalty. So, what are they losing? Lopez is hitting .417, ranked 4th in the Central League, batting .833 with runners in scoring position. Lopez has not struck out yet in 7 games played. Maeda, hitting .407, and Higashide (.333) are the only other players on the team getting on often - both ahead of Lopez, but no longer with anyone to bring them home.
Somebody needs to sit down with Yamamoto-kantoku and Lopez in a non-confrontational setting and establish that this is all a very bad misunderstanding. Lopez is not upset because he's being selfish but because he's competitive. This is a good trait. Hitting his team mate over it (out of frustration?) probably isn't the best outlet of his competitiveness, and I'm sure he regrets it after the fact. A repremand for that is understandable, but not for wanting to add runs.
HaruSaru-san, as a Carp fan, what do you think of this turn of events? Any other Carp fans out there? Any other interpretations of yesterday's events? I'd like to hear them.