Godzilla and the USA

This comes just a day after fans rovolted against the Giants' proposed uniform change. They had announced that their road uniforms were going to read "Yomiuri" starting soon, and the fans protested at Tokyo Dome last night.

Banners reading "Tokyo Giants," "We're not Yomiuri fans, we're Giants' fans," "Are the Giants nothing more than an adversising body?" and more.

As an aside, have you ever wondered why I often write Yakult, Hiroshima, Yokohama, etc., but never Tokyo or Yomiuri for the Giants? It's because that's how it is in the Japanese press. The Giants are generally written as "Kyojin," while all of the other teams are referred to by their owning companies (except Hiroshima is never mentioned as "Toyo"). I thought that it was because the other newspapers don't want to advertise for Yomiuri, but if that were the case, why do they write Chunichi (also a news media company)? Even Yomiuri's paper writes "Kyojin."

Anyway, could it be that Watanabe is losing his hold on Japanese baseball? I didn't expect Nabetsu to give Matsui up without a fight. And especially to make any kind of statement before the end of the season.

I am not a Giants fan, but it is sad that their road uniform will change from "Tokyo" to "Yomiuri." The Hiroshima Toyo Carp are called Hiroshima. This is because before Hiroshima was bought by Toyo Kougyoh (a.k.a. Mazda), the Carp were called Hiroshima. The Giants are known as "Kyojin." I believe that the Giants were "kyojin-gun" or "Tokyo Kyojin" during World War II. This is why their road uniform say "Tokyo" on front.

Kyojin (or Giants) are known as the Tokyo Giants in the U.S. Why the h*ll will they change their road uniforms from Tokyo to Yomiuri? The Yomiuri Group has never needed to advertise their team as the other 11 teams do. Everybody who follows Japanese baseball is aware that the Giants are owned by the Yomiuri Group.

Wait, there's a chance that Godzilla could end up with the Cubs? Excuse me while I turn some cartwheels...

Today's Nikkan Sports (June 4) mentioned the possibility of Matsui going to the Majors, but the entire article talked about his appearance in the upcoming "Godzilla vs. Mecha-Godzilla" movie. There was no mention of Watanabe or any team. Just that he's free to choose at the end of the season.

Which brings up a point I had missed yesterday. Matsui has qualified for free agency. That means that Watanabe has no say in the matter of where he goes. Matsui may have said that he's considering the two New York teams, Cubbies, or Seattle, but Watanabe is out of the picture when it comes to approving or disapproving which offer he'll take. Matsui is not being posted. So the statement from the BayArea.com article:

Tsuneo Watanabe, owner of the Yomiuri Giants, says he would not block Matsui's departure if he had a chance to play for the Yankees, Mets, Mariners or Cubs.

has me a little confused. In what way does Nabetsu think he can block Matsui's departure?

Westbay-san,

I don't think I've ever properly thanked you for running this site. So... thanks! It really makes following Pro Yakyu easy and fun.

That being said, I know that Hideki Matsui is a free agent, but wasn't there a thread some time back mentioning rumors that Watanabe was going to try to change the free agent rules, or do something (anything!) to keep Godzilla in the country?

I guess they were just rumors, and Watanabe has relented. Though a couple of the articles make it sound like this is a Yao Ming-type situation, where Watanabe will only let Matsui go to a pre-approved major-market team. Strange.


~Chris

My pleasure. But thanks should really go to people like you who point out interesting articles to discuss.

Nonetheless, most of those "rumors" about Watanabe changing the rules are most likely speculation by me and some of the others about what he's capable of. As someone else pointed out, this is a site of opinion more than of fact. (Of course, it's more factual than much of the mainstream North American press when it comes to what's happening over here, but...)

A good example is that I often say that Watanabe has more power than the Commissioner. Watanabe is, in fact, just one of 12 owners. He can't change the free agency rules all alone. But he does have a great deal more influence than any of the other 11 owners, and the Giants can be used as a bargaining chip for a little give and take on issues like inter-league play. Of course, free agency would have never come about if it didn't benefit the Giants. The trade off with free agency was that the Giants, I mean, purchasing team, had to pay 1.5 times the players' salary to the former team. It's a form of profit sharing so that Watanabe could collect trophies from all of the other teams. It's rather ironic that it's coming back to bite him.

Up until now, the Giants have been on the recieving end of the free agent game. When some of the Giants threatened to declare free agency, Watanabe threatened to strip them of their Giant heritage. Or rather, he reminded them of what it meant to retire as a Giant - the prestige that come with the word Kyojin next to one's name in the record books as compared to, say, "Ochiai - Nippon Ham." (Ochiai had the height of his career with three other teams, including the Giants.)

I apoligize if some of my rantings spill over to be interpreted as facts when they can sometimes be exagerations and/or sarcasm. Yes, there is some truth that Nabe is the most powerful man in Japanese baseball. And he's probably working on a way to get Matsui to stay. But even a recent poll in Shukan Baseball showed that the fans support Matsui challenging the Majors. So Watanabe has got a lot of opposition to contend with.

Still, it's hard to believe that he's given up.

From what I've read, it seems that Matsui is looking at three teams: the Yankees, the SF Giants and the Boston Red Sox. Watanabe has said that he would like Matsui to go to what he termed an "A class" team, which means that he is concerned that the Yomiuri prestige not be hurt by Matsui going to, say, the Angels or the Padres, which isn't going to happen anyway. One agent said that Matsui will command $5 million per year from the word go (Ichiro got $5.67 million last season plus incentives, but is only making $3.67 million this season and will make only an additional $1 million next season), so that will weed out a lot of teams.

As for the teams hottest for him, those are the Yankees and the Braves as it stands right now. The Mariners won't be interested in Matsui, imho, unless he'll agree to be the DH after Edgar retires, since Matsui is defensively challenged. Moreover, for all the money that Nintendo has poured into the team, they still operate on a budget and Matsui's price tag may be too high. Ichiro will no doubt demand a big pay raise for 2004 and that may limit what Seattle does about Matsui when you look at the big financial picture.

The Sox and Godzilla would make for interesting club house drama at Fenway, but only if there is no strike this summer. Godzilla would be the second high priced DH type with limited D skills the Sox would have along with Manny Ramirez. Both would have big price tags while the Sox would have to deal with Pedro Martinez whining about renegotiating. Speaking of Pedro...its June and time for his mid season vacation on the DL. I'd rather see the Sox go after a pitcher than a hitter at this point. Not to mention that another high priced free agent comming to Boston is a stretch since the team's new owners need to get rid of $700 million in debt they incured in buying the team. $20 million this year alone in interest payments while also trying to find a way to build a new facility before Fenway falls in on itself (another $500 million). Matsui may be a possablity in Boston, but if there is a prolonged strike, with all that debt, the Sox may be one of the 6 - 8 Selig said disappear. The Yankees may be a better fit. Can you get the YES channel in Tokyo yet?

Selig would never contract New York or Boston. They are some of the most valuable teams in the sport, as demonstrated by the recent $700 million dollar price tag on buying the team. Also, it would be great if the Cubs got Matsui, but I really doubt that it will happen. The Cubs' ownership will not want to spend big bucks on Matsui. Also, Matsui would never play unless the Cubs could trade Moises Alou. The outfield is set for the next three years with Alou in left, Patterson in center, and Sosa in right. I really do not think even Manager Don Baylor is stupid enough to bench Sosa like that, although I would not be surprised if that is how the mind of Baylor works.

It would be great if the Cubs got Matsui, but I really doubt that it will happen. The Cubs' ownership will not want to spend big bucks on Matsui. Also, Matsui would never play unless the Cubs could trade Moises Alou. The outfield is set for the next three years with Alou in left, Patterson in center, and Sosa in right. I really do not think even Manager Don Baylor is stupid enough to bench Sosa like that, although I would not be surprised if that is how the mind of Baylor works.

I agree; Alou would have to go for it to happen (although I suspect that Alou would be the one riding the bench if Matsui were a Cub) and it's a long shot. However, Matsui's price tag is likely to be much cheaper than Alou's and I doubt the Cubs will pick up McGriff's $9 million option next year with Hee Seop Choi waiting in the wings, which should free up some capital.

I don't understand why Matsui would be in Boston when Fenway Park favors right handed pull hitters. Matsui bats left and is a pull hitter. The Green Monster would not favor Matsui unless he knows how to hit it in that direction.

Chicago? No way. Wrigley Field favors Matsui, but they are already loaded with power hitters. With Sosa, McGriff, and Alou, where would Matsui play or hit even? There is no DH in the National League. Matsui plays CF, but are they going to sacrafice a lead-off hitter to make room for Matsui? I don't think so.

Yankees makes sense, but I think Steinbrenner has a bitter taste when he sacrificed Phil Nevin for Hideki Irabu. When Irabu was scouted in Japan, he was 20 pounds lighter and had a zip on the ball. Now he is too fat to pitch the 95+ he was once famous for. Now Matsui? I don't think Steinbrenner is going to sacrifice a whole lot just for Matsui. He already got burned with Irabu. Even though the house that Ruth build is a perfect stadium for Matsui to play in.

Giants, seems to make a whole lot of sense. I think Reggie Sanders only signed a one year contract and he is not playing up to par. Plus he will be teaming with Shinjo so at least Matsui would not feel so lonely. CF and RF will be open next year. And it would be interesting since Pac Bell Park does favor left handed hitters.

I'd certainly like to see how many fans go on ready alert in the bay when Matsui comes to bat. There could be a lot of wet baseballs between him and Bonds.

I might be wrong, but if I'm not mistaken, Hideki Irabu's rights were traded from San Diego to New York for OF Ruben (Kleptomaniac) Rivera, not Phil Nevin as SF Giants pointed out.

I think Matsui would do well anywhere. The Cubs are loaded with power hitters like SF Giants said, but Alou isn't hitting and he might not be around next season and McGriff is way past his prime. Sosa-Matsui would make a deadly right-left power combination.

Matsui would do awesome at Yankee Stadium with its short left field porch, but he would also do well at Fenway Park. Sure, Fenway is tailored made for right-handed pull hitters, but the left field fence isn't too far away either.

Simply put, he is an awesome player who can succeed anywhere against anyone.

Let me preface my statements by saying that I am a diehard Yankee fan, and would thus love to see Matsui in pinstripes.

Although things with Irabu didn't work out, it seemed more like a clash of personalities than problems with different cultures. Irabu didn't show much of a work ethic, and often disrespected team rules. The Boss has no patience for slackers, ethnicity aside, and such players quickly find themselves in a new locale.

Although Steinbrenner has become much more patient and rational in dealing with player management, I would not count him out in the pursuit of Godzilla. George has a habit for acquiring players just to keep them off other teams, and I can see this being a case where he would hate to have another owner upstage him in a bidding war. Plus, I'm sure Steinbrenner sees dollar signs when imagining the marketing possibilities for New York's Asian population. (Though the Japanese segment is awfully small when compared to other nationalities.)

I think Matsui would be a perfect fit for Yankee Stadium, and he would also be able to DH in the American League. I would hate to see Nick Johnson squeezed out of a position between him, Jason Giambi, and Matsui, but I can't say I wouldn't be thrilled to see Godzilla as a Yankee.

Of course, it would certainly help my Hideki Matsui baseball card collection, too...


~Chris

As a Sox fan, I couldn't agree more. The Yankees and a star Japanese player couldn't be a better fit. Although I must disagree with one thing. The Asian population is the fastest growing minority in America right now and has more income and better buying power than most other minority groups in the US, which makes them highly attractive to advertisers. Most Anglo, Latin and African Americans are blind to this as direct marketing to the Japanese, Chinese and Korean populations never crosses over into common American culture. Not to mention that The Boss may see the $$$ but not comming from NY, it would be comming from added interest in the Yankees on the otherside of the Pacific.

BTW in a previous post, I did not mean to infer that the Sox would ever be involved in contraction. What I meant to say was that with $700 million in debt on the books, a prolonged strike would kill the Sox as a business. I'm sure baseball would remain in Boston, but it would be hard to remain in opperation with no income and that much debt.

I don't know about the Giants... $5 million per year for Matsui might be more than they want to pay. Sanders is only making $1.75 million this year, Shinjo a little less at $1.35 million.

Also, Pac Bell isn't a left-handed power hitter's paradise:

73 Home Runs...With No Help From the Ballpark

In 2001, Barry Bonds belted 73 home runs; 36 of those homers came in Giants road games. The other 37, of course, came at home, in San Francisco's Pacific Bell Park. The nearly even split implies that Bonds' mark wasn't a function of taking advantage of his home park in a disproportionate fashion in pursuit of the record.

That's not the half of it, if you'll pardon the pun. [...]

[Please click the link to read the rest of the article - on the left side with a blue background.]

That was interesting. Matsui hits monster home runs at Tokyo Dome, which does favor home run hitters. I would still like to see if he can hit them into the bay with consistancy. (Besides, I was raised a San Francisco Giants' fan. But I'm afraid that Candlestick Park is the only "home" I know.)

Perhaps a more left-handed power hitter friendly park would be best for Godzilla. But I still think that a Matsui-Bonds water splashing combo would be a great show.

Provided that Matsui makes the same kind of contact in MLB as he does in Japan, Fenway Park will provide no obstacles to him at all. Actually, it could help him since he would be playing a relatively shallow leftfield due to the monster and that would help conceal his deficiencies of reading long fly balls and throwing the ball. He has the power to hit it out anywhere and since he is hitting a lot more to left this season than he ever has (in fact, he had one game where he hit two balls out to left), he could have a pretty good time bouncing balls of the monster. And Fenway didn't hurt Ted Williams' numbers, not to say that Matsui is Ted Williams reincarnate (an absurd idea to be sure). I'm still a little suspicious of Matsui's chances in MLB, but he is still getting better as a hitter, so we'll see.

Mr Garland:

I am curious as to the reasons why you are somewhat tentative about Matsui's chances of performing at a star-level in MLB. Most sabermetric analyses point to Matsui performing around .280/.380/.540 or so (roughly on par offensively with someone like Abreu or Giles).

You mentioned some of his defensive deficiencies, and from what I've read, it sounds like he'd be better suited for one of the OF corners in the MLB. But what possible holes are there in his offensive game? Bat speed? Hitting breaking or offspeed pitches? Considering the high level of play in Japan, it would seem to me that any serious flaws in his game would have already been exploited there. Matsui's already displayed prodigious power and his K and BB rates show tremendous plate discipline.

Then again, I'm not a scout and have never seen him play in person. =)

Thanks in advance for your reply.

PS I'd love to see Matsui play in LF for the Mariners, since Sierra is not a long term solution there, and McLemore is getting old, but it looks like they're gonna go with Snelling in LF. Can't blame them, he looks to be a great talent.

Matsui to the Yanks is problematic bc they have Rondell White, Juan Rivera, Van der Wal and Spencer at the OF corners, and Giambi and Nick Johnson at 1B/DH.

Bostons set with Ramirez, Damon and Nixon in the OF, tho they might have an opening at 1B/DH. And they are very active in Asian scouting. Money will be a problem, however

ATL could have an opening in LF if they'd move Chipper back to 3B, but I dont think that's going to happen. Tho I would if I were in charge, Castilla sucks and Chipper has been atrocious defensively at LF, whereas he was merely below avg at 3B, a much more dificult position to find good hitting.

So, that leaves the Giants. If they are willing to spend the money, Matsui in RF would be perfect. They need some offense, have no OF prospects, Reggie Sanders is only signed for 1 yr, and Shinjo in CF can help offset any lack of defense/speed on the OF corners. Plus, Matsui can remain a giant, which is kindof a nice trick.

You bring up a good point about what Sabermatricians say about Matsui. The guy he actually initially reminded me of in terms of tools was Henry Rodriguez, a poor, slow outfielder who struckout a ton that had some decent years in MLB, but couldn't really maintain good numbers over a longer haul.

The problem with that analysis now is that Matsui has always had better batspeed (105mph) than Rodriguez and he has been fairly successful in keeping his strikeouts under control (and they've never been excessive by power hitter standards anyway) in the last couple of years while also starting to use leftfield more. That's one reason he won the CL batting championship last season. Moreover, the CL has the best pitchers in all of Japanese baseball. On the other hand, it also has the two smallest parks and Matsui has made a good part of his career beating up the Hiroshima Carp, one of the two teams with postage stamp sized ballparks. But then again, Matsui was once owned by Kazuhisa Ishii, who was just burying him until the 2001 and 2002 seasons, when Matsui hit better than .300 against the lefty.

Consequently, a lot of the recent signs are now tending to perhaps backup what you insist to be true and the ball does indeed explode off the guy's bat. On the other hand, he was just so totally lost during the last NPB-MLB all star series (where Shinjo batted over .300 with several extra base hits) that it only confirmed my doubts as to his long term MLB viability. So we'll see. Often times you have gut reactions to how players will do and sometimes you're right and sometimes you're wrong.

As for the situation in Atlanta, look for Gary Sheffield or Chipper Jones to go to first base. There has also been some talk among scouts of moving Matsui himself to first base. That would be interesting. I don't know how well he would take to it. Chipper Jones is a lousy outfielder imho, so putting him at first would be better for all involved.

The Yankee situation? Steinbrenner is thinking dollars and Matsui would bring that to his club in spades. If Godzilla takes off at all, you will see Matsui tours to NY Yankees games just as you did with Ichiro and Nomo. It would also enhance the Yankee presence in Japan, which is pretty much a Mariners company town to exaggerate only slightly. Moreover, that lineup would give Matsui the best protection of any in baseball and thus the best chance of success. This is a guy who can crush fastballs. He has some trouble with off speed pitches (and he struckout three times for the second time this season the other day, the last time on three straight sliders), but he will destroy mistakes. On the other hand, the media and fan pressure in NY is intense. Matsui is a real nice guy and I would hate to see him subject to the same kind of venom as Giambi was when he had some early troubles. One good thing: look at his frame; no way you can accuse him of using steroids.

The secret for Matsui, I think, when he comes to MLB, is to go with what the pitchers give him (and he is doing more of that in Japan, where he complains that nobody is giving him good pitches to hit). As long as he does that and doesn't try to do too much he MIGHT have a shot. Put him in the three hole (where he had 184 lifetime homers) and allow Giambi or Sheffield to protect him. That would also allow him to emphasize his OBP as a set up man for Giambi and company while driving in Soriano and Jeter. And when someone makes a mistake he can deposit it in that short porch. Indeed, there is no doubt that Godzilla will be the most intriguing player to watch in 2003.

Thanks very much for the reply.

The info on his bat speed, etc. was really informative. I'd agree that as long as he doesn't press and try to hit 70 HRs, he'll be ok. If he can spray the ball to all fields, take his walks and knock mistake pitches out of the park, his track record would predict more than solid numbers. I'm somewhat worried that he'd try to go for the longball to try and disprove the myth that Japanese players cant hit for power.

Anyway, we'll just have to wait and see...I'm moving back to the States after a year abroad, and I can't wait to watch some baseball at last..

Hopefully, acquiring Raul Mondesi has taken the Yanks out of next year

There have been a number of references to Matsui's "poor fielding." Everyone does know that he has won the Golden Glove Award the last two years in a row, right? While I argued that he may not have been the most deserving here, Matsui has improved a great deal since being moved to center a couple of years ago. He doesn't instill fear in base runners trying for an extra base like Ichiro or Shinjo, but I don't see him as being all that bad. He can hold his own, and is too young to be a DH.

I would not, however, think of moving him to the infield. He played 3rd base in high school and was converted to right field after joining the Giants. He had done some imbarassing practices at third one spring, and retired his third base glove thereafter. I think he played an inning at third for an All Star game as well, but I don't remember if he got anything hit to him or not. But I really don't think he's up to ground balls at the corners.

Michael-san, I hear what you're saying about Matsui's fielding, but I think he only got those Gold Gloves because they gave him everything else in 2000, so why not a Gold Glove? The one he got last season really puzzled me, especially since the guys on either side of him, Shimizu and Takahashi, are better outfielders. Manaka is a better outfielder than Matsui, so is Inaba, Fukudome, and perhaps Hiyama.

Moreover, the third base thing is a non-issue. Steve Garvey started with the Dodgers as a third baseman, but after every third throw ended up in the 12th row behind first base, they moved him to first, where he won Gold Gloves. So let's see if that experiment works out, if it even happened. One of the doubts scouts had about Matsui is that he doesn't get rid of the ball very well and just on that alone third isn't an option anyway.

Since I'm a Met fan I'd like to see Matsui play at Shea. You've got a manager that used to coach in the Japanese League and really no standout outfielders (Payton, Cedeno, Burnitz).

Somewhere in the middle of the thread was a reference to FA/posting.

Can someone confirm for me that if a player is a free agent, then posting does not come into play?

Thanks...

- Can someone confirm for me that if a player is a free agent, then posting does not come into play?

Yes, that is correct. Once a player qualifies for free agency, then hopping to the Majors is that much easier. Team permission (and/or kickbacks) is no longer necessary if the player decides to go the MLB route.

If a player signs as a free agent in Japan, however, the purchasing team must pay 1.5 times his current sallary or work out a deal whereby a player (and some money) trade hands.

This system kind of works out a trade-off for allowing players to leave before they become free agents if a player is thinking of crossing the Pacific. A team can get money by posting a player, but gets nothing in return if they wait for the player to become a free agent and he heads off to the Majors. On the other hand, if the player is going to stay in Japan, they stand to make out better should the player decide to move to another team.

Of course, this only counts for star players.

Nonetheless, you have it right.

How are the free agents for 2003? Isn't Kazuo Matsui on that list?

Yes K Matsui will be a free agent in 2003. It will be interesting to see if Hideki Matsui lives up to all the hype that is surrounding him coming to MLB. I have my doubts, but then again Ichiro proved me wrong last season, so it's gonna be interesting.

Yes K Matsui will be a free agent in 2003.

Little Matsui will earn his free agency during the 2003 season, which means 2004 is the soonest he could be in the Majors, unless he's posted this off season.

http://www.japantimes.com/cgi-bin/getsp.pl5?sb20020717wg.htm
Former Yomiuri Giants great center fielder Warren Cromartie predicts the current great Giants center fielder, Hideki Matsui, will not be going to the major leagues at the end of the current season. Cromartie spoke with Matsui at the Tokyo Dome several times prior to the Giants' six-game homestand in early July, and the vibes Cro received lead him to believe "Godzilla" will sign a long-term deal with Yomiuri. "He's staying right here," said Cromartie.

Time will tell but I hope Cro's wrong.