Dazzled by greatness
Discussion in the Nichi-Bei forum
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Storied Franchise
[ Author: Guest: Seiyu | Posted: Apr 29, 2002 11:47 PM
]
The two oldest baseball franchises, Tokyo Giants (est. 1934) and Hanshin Tigers (est. 1936) are the Yankees vs Red Sox of Japanese baseball. Giants have won a lot of championship and Tigers last won in 1985. Nagoya Chunichi Dragons (est. 1936), another storied franchise hasn't won the Japan Championship since 1954. Pretty much, every other franchise in the Central league has won it in the last 20 years. In the Pacific League, The Nippon Ham Fighters (Toei Flyers) last won it all in 1962. Chiba Lotte Marines (Lotte Orions) last won it in 1974. Every other franchise have won it in the last 20 years except the Kintetsu Buffaloes who has never reached the pinnacle in their 52 year history.
Re: Storied Franchise
[ Author: Guest: Gary Garland | Posted: May 1, 2002 12:45 AM
]
I would say that the lovable losers tag right now
is with Hanshin. They were once like the Red Sox in that they would finish second A LOT back in the day, but for the last 20 years or so, they've been pretty weak (except for the Randy Bass interlude) and have
therefore been more like the Cubs.
You know about the Cubs jinx on the Japan Series, though, don't you? No club who has had an ex-Cub (note that Hanshin has Derrick White) has been able to pull off a Japan Series championship.
is with Hanshin. They were once like the Red Sox in that they would finish second A LOT back in the day, but for the last 20 years or so, they've been pretty weak (except for the Randy Bass interlude) and have
therefore been more like the Cubs.
You know about the Cubs jinx on the Japan Series, though, don't you? No club who has had an ex-Cub (note that Hanshin has Derrick White) has been able to pull off a Japan Series championship.
Re: Storied Franchise
[ Author: Guest | Posted: May 1, 2002 4:06 PM
]
Until V2 in '79, I always felt that Yakult had that same jinx in similar suroundings. Older, pre-war single deck park with a scoreboard operated by hand in a neighborhood/tree lined setting. But then they've won a few since then, added the fake grass and lost the lovable loser tag.
The Sacred Ground of Jingu Stadium
[ Author: Guest: seiyu | Posted: May 1, 2002 11:15 PM
]
In the 1970s I hang out at the old Jingu Stadium a lot. It was beautiful. The outfield had no seats. It was grass. The stadium was never full except when the Giants played. We use to sit out there with onigiri and coke and it was heaven. Jingu and Koshien were the best. Koshien is still great. Old Jingu is no more. See Detail of Jingu Stadium (est. 1925).
Re: Storied Franchise
[ Author: yakult toughman | Posted: May 2, 2002 1:14 AM
| YAK Fan
]
Yakult won their first league and Nihon Series championship in 1978. Yakult lost the loveable loser tag in the 1990's.
Re: Storied Franchise
[ Author: Cub Fan | Posted: May 2, 2002 8:30 AM
]
That ex-Cub factor is just like the one in the U.S. I am a big Cubs fan and it seems they can never win nor can any of the former Cubs. The theory, written by a Cubs reporter, is that no team can win the World Series if they have three or more ex-Cubs on the team. This has been true for quite a long time. However, the curse was broken last year when the Arizona Diamondbacks won the World Series despite having former Cubs Mark Grace (my favorite), Luis Gonzalez, Mike Morgan, and one other player's name that has slipped my mind. Are there any NPB teams with curses similar to the Cubs or Red Sox curses, i.e. Curse of the Bambino and that damn goat that cursed the Cubs in 1945?
This is the subject
[ Author: yakult toughman | Posted: May 3, 2002 6:24 AM
| YAK Fan
]
<Ex-Cub Jinx in the Nihon Series>
1970: Lotte, who had an ex-cub named George Altman, lost to the Yomiuri Tokyo Giants.
1973: The Nankai Hawks, who had ex-cub named Clarence Jones, lost to the Yomiuri Giants in the Nihon series.
1985: The Seibu Lions, who had an ex-cub named Steve Ontiveros, lost to the Hanshin Tigers.
1995: The Orix BlueWave, who had an ex-cub Doug Jennings, lost to the Yakult Swallows.
1999: Chunichi Dragons (with an ex-cub named Leo Gomez) lost to the Hawks.
2001: Kintetsu(with an ex-cub Tuffy Rhodes) was defeated by Yakult.
>No club who has had an ex-cub has been able to pull off a Japan Series championship.
This is not true.
1974: Lotte (with ex-cub Altman) defeated The Chunichi Dragons.
1982, 83: Seibu Lions (with ex-Cub Steve Ontiveros) defeated the Dragons in 1982, the Giants in '83.
1996: Orix (with ex-cub Doug Jennings) defeated the Giants.
1970: Lotte, who had an ex-cub named George Altman, lost to the Yomiuri Tokyo Giants.
1973: The Nankai Hawks, who had ex-cub named Clarence Jones, lost to the Yomiuri Giants in the Nihon series.
1985: The Seibu Lions, who had an ex-cub named Steve Ontiveros, lost to the Hanshin Tigers.
1995: The Orix BlueWave, who had an ex-cub Doug Jennings, lost to the Yakult Swallows.
1999: Chunichi Dragons (with an ex-cub named Leo Gomez) lost to the Hawks.
2001: Kintetsu(with an ex-cub Tuffy Rhodes) was defeated by Yakult.
>No club who has had an ex-cub has been able to pull off a Japan Series championship.
This is not true.
1974: Lotte (with ex-cub Altman) defeated The Chunichi Dragons.
1982, 83: Seibu Lions (with ex-Cub Steve Ontiveros) defeated the Dragons in 1982, the Giants in '83.
1996: Orix (with ex-cub Doug Jennings) defeated the Giants.
Re: Dazzled by greatness
[ Author: Dragons+Cubs | Posted: May 2, 2002 12:23 PM
| CD Fan
]
Miguel Batista was the other former Cub in the '01 World Series with the Diamondbacks. The Cubs were one of six teams he has played for. His only season with Chicago was in '97 when he recorded an 0-5 pitching record. He was 11-8 with the Diamondbacks last year.
Didn't the Dragons win the Japan Series in '88, or was that only the Central League? I was under the assumption they had gone all the way that year, but it looks like I may be wrong about that.
Didn't the Dragons win the Japan Series in '88, or was that only the Central League? I was under the assumption they had gone all the way that year, but it looks like I may be wrong about that.
1988 Nihon Series
[ Author: westbaystars | Posted: May 2, 2002 1:43 PM
| YBS Fan
]
- Didn't the Dragons win the Japan Series in '88, or was that only the Central League?
It was just the CL. Seibu defeated them 4 games to 1 in the Series. (Source: BBM-sha's 2002 Baseball Record Book)
It was just the CL. Seibu defeated them 4 games to 1 in the Series. (Source: BBM-sha's 2002 Baseball Record Book)
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The luck of a journalist is usually few and far between. But this past Saturday (April 27th, 2002), I got to witness my first no-hitter thrown by Boston Red Sox pitcher, Derek Lowe.
Lowe, 27, brought the fans of the Red Sox to there collective feet from about the second out of the seventh frame. It was not only a magical moment, but to share it with the fans of the Red Sox, was that much sweeter.
My question to you is this: In North America, there are two storied franchises that have struggled to reach the pinnacle of greatness in at least 50 years. The Chicago Cubs and the Boston Red Sox. Both have had many strong teams over the years, but never have they been able to get over the playoff hump.
Are there any comparisons in Japan that could compare to that of the struggles of these two American teams? Is there one in particular that stands out to you?
Drop me a line and be creative.
Rob Fai