Godzilla Popularity

I was amazed to find out on NHK news last night that a special media facility had been set up at the Yankees' Florida ground for Matsui to hold his press conferences. They foresee so many press people showing up that he's got to have his own conference tent. Incredible.

The reason for this special accomodation is because the Yankees are not used to having 60 media from Japan covering their team. The team usually has 12 to 15 NY newspaper and TV reporters covering them. And they are there to cover the whole team not just one player.

I wonder how these 60 reporters will follow the team from city to city during the year. MLB consists of a lot more travel than Japanese baseball.

They seemed to do fine following Ichiro around in 2001. And Nomo in 1996...

This is nothing compared to those two. Nomo only pitched every 5 days. Ichiro is the most talented, but in terms of popularity that is like comparing the NBA stars of Garnett to Jordan.
Today in Japan they had live telecast of Matsui's first official batting practice with the Yankees.

According to a poll I saw, Ichiro is more popular among the general Japanese population. I don't think that Hideki Matsui is particularly charismatic in himself, but rather, he's been anointed with the cachet of the Giants. Tsuyoshi Shinjo has far more natural charisma, for example, as does Kazuhiro Kiyohara. But you have a novelty of the cleanup hitter from Japan's most popular team taking an MLB shot. Therefore, I think it's more what surrounds the Matsui MLB defection than Matsui himself.

Furthermore, since the Giants are covered so obsessively on television as well as in the press, there is also perhaps a feeling that Matsui is part of the family in Japan. Given that Japan has long had a sort of inferiority complex vis a vis America, it would do Japanese pride a world of good if Matsui made it with the big boys.

Ichiro might be more popular on a general coolness level than Matsui, but Godzilla has a friendlier aura and seems more accessible while Ichiro tends to keep people at a distance. That tends to create more visceral sympathy for a guy who is risking his prestige overseas away from his nakama [friends, associates] and what he is comfortable with.

I think one thing that will bear out my thesis is that when Kazuo Matsui comes to MLB next season, you'll see a lot of coverage, but nothing near what you have with Hideki Matsui, despite the fact that Kazuo is a better all around athlete and player than Hideki is. Consequently, even overseas, it's Giants, Giants, Giants!

Ichiro was more popular than Matsui when he played for Orix and dominated the Pacific League consistently. The biggest factor now with "Godzilla" is the Yomiuri Giants/New York Yankees scenario. Matsui going from the most loved/hated team in NPB to the most loved/hated team in MLB. You are constantly in the public eye with either team.

Ichiro needed MLB to gain recognition. The Pacific League is still the junior league in Japan. From my experience even the weak Hanshin Tigers were more popular than the Orix team in the Osaka-Kobe region that they share. That is why people in that area were interested in Shinjyo (Hanshin) as much as Ichiro (Orix). The poll I saw said that almost 65 % of baseball fans in Japan are Giants fans. What % are Orix fans?

> The weak Hanshin Tigers[...]

Hey!

Well, they started off good, but they faded. I see a lot of potential in their pitching staff, but the hitting was sub-par in the clutch. The fans have always been very dedicated. My grandfather was actually a player in the Hanshin organization. I actually wear a Hanshin cap while living in NY. I do get compliments on it.

I disagree violently with you on this. I agree 100% with CFiJ-san, GG-san, and Kiyoshi-san. Ichiro was more popular as an individual player. The Garnett/Jordan comparison is terrible. Matsui is no Jordan. Nagashima/Oh are the Jordan of NPB. Ichiro was more popular as an individual player precisely because he played for a team like Orix. The guy carried the Pacific League for crying out loud!!!

Gozilla's popularity is something which was built on top of the Yomiuri Giants' popularity. The reason Matsui gets coverage is because he is a Yomiuri Giant. Just imagine what would have happened if Ichiro played for the Giants.

Plus Ichiro was more popular among the ladies. He is more of a "visual-kei," which is very very important in Japan these days.

I agree with you. If Ichiro had played for the Giants or the Yankees his popularity would be unbelievable. But it is not happening.

The Garnett comparison was for the Minnesota person. He is a great player, but he plays for the small market Timberwolves so he does not get the media coverage of other stars. Again I am talking about the casual fans, not the die-hard sports fans.

Speaking of popular with the ladies, did you see how Shinjyo showed up at the Mets camp?

Just the fact that Ichiro gained so much popularity as an Orix player by itself is incredible. Ichiro had a different kind of persona than Matsui. Ichiro was more known to be a "hip" personality, wearing cool duds, sunglasses, spikey hair, popular with ladies and youngsters. Matsui was more of a traditional type. So called "enka no hanamichi" type. More popular amongst the older crowd. Both were extremely popular in Japan. Maybe about the same. But to say that Matsui was more popular is wrong. Also, Ichiro became an icon before Matsui, just after he became the first player in Japan to hit 200+ base　hits. Matsui's maturity as a player came much later.

Lessee, Ichiro beat out the Emperor of Japan in a recognition poll in Japan (and thus, of course, Matsui as well). He was also the first Japanese position player to play in the Majors, while Matsui is now the fourth.

Matsui has had to deal with more media as the #4 hitter for the Giants, but I think Ichiro has definitely been more popular. There has been one movie and one TV drama done with some relation to Ichiro, and none for Matsui.

But my point is, the Japanese press has been over all this before with Ichiro. His first year with the Mariners, the team issued 113 press credentials to Japanese reporters on Opening Night 2001, and 75 to reporters who would follow the team on the road. The press are old hands at this by now.

That is like comparing apples to oranges. Now that both of them will be competing in the same league let's see who is more popular. And if the coverage of yesterday's 1st batting practice means anything the Matsui-mania will far exceed Ichiro-mania. Either way I think it is great that we will be able to see the best Japanese players compete at the highest level.

Apples? Oranges? What are you talking about? You wondered how the press was prepared to follow the Yankees because of MLB's more rigorous road schedule. I explained that they'd been through it all before with Nomo and Ichiro. You suggested this was different because Ichiro wasn't as popular in Japan as Matsui. This is demonstrably not true; Ichiro was more recognizable than even the Emperor of Japan.

Leagues have nothing to do with it. Ichiro was the most recognizable baseball player in Japan. To say that Ichiro had to go to MLB to become well known is ludicrous.

As for now, Matsui is playing in the media center of America, so of course he's going to be covered more. Not to mention that the Yankees are in a much better position to contend than the Mariners are. But, it's not a competition. At least in regard as to who's more popular. But I'm not entirely sure "Matsui-mania" will far exceed "Ichiro-mania". In fact, if the Giants are doing well this year, the coverage of Matsui in Japan will probably decrease.

As for in the States, 30-40 homeruns will certainly put Matsui in good company as a high level player, but I don't know if he'll stand out from the crowd like Ichiro did his first year.

When was the last time you were actually in Japan. Don't believe every baseball tabloid that you read.
The apple and oranges comment was because we cannot make a judgement until they both play in the same baseball environment that is MLB. So reserve your judgement until the season is at least half over

Sonoda, we don't need to see them play in the same baseball environment to know that you made two grievously wrong statements: First, Ichiro was always more popular in Japan than Matsui. Small market, Giants, it didn't matter. Ichiro was the most recognized figure in Japan. You seem to be ignoring that he was recognized more than the Emperor of Japan. Second, the Japanese press crew following Matsui is no bigger or crazier than that following Ichiro in 2001.

And I got the information on the press credentials from the Seattle Times and the Seattle Post-Intelligencer. I don't read many tabloids; I read the Nikkan Sports web site, and I take everything I read there with a grain of salt, just as I do when I read American newspapers.

And I was last in Japan in 2001. What about you? Are we going to get into a contest now? Should we start comparing Japanese ability? Or should we just cut to the chase and drop trou?

Contest? What are you talking about? I travel between the US and Japan on a regular basis. It is great that many people including yourself express interest in Japanese baseball. But when something needs to be corrected I just expressed my opinion and facts. Again I want you to reserve judgement on the Matsui-mania until at least the season is half over. And as far as the press coverage, again I state the fact that the media capitals Tokyo/New York are covering Matsui so it is much bigger than 2001 when Ichiro came here. It is not a CONTEST, I am stating facts. Why are you taking it so personal?

Why are you taking it so personal?

Let me take you through the flow of this thread.

You said:
I wonder how these 60 reporters will follow the team from city to city during the year. MLB consists of a lot more travel than Japanese baseball.

I replied:
They seemed to do fine following Ichiro around in 2001. And Nomo in 1996...

You replied to that with this:
This is nothing compared to those two. Nomo only pitched every 5 days. Ichiro is the most talented, but in terms of popularity that is like comparing the NBA stars of Garnett to Jordan.

This is where you went off on a tangent, and that above statement is completely wrong. I'll give you Nomo pitching every five days. But Garnett to Jordan is a completely off-base comparison, as many others have tried to explain to you. Ichiro was always more popular, for a longer time than Matsui. I tried to explain this by mentioning, among other things, this well-known poll:

Lessee, Ichiro beat out the Emperor of Japan in a recognition poll in Japan (and thus, of course, Matsui as well).

Then I tried to pull things back on track: the 60 reporters following Matsui. I explained that 70 reporters followed Ichiro on the road in 2001, so the reporters would be well-equipped and prepared for the travel.

For some reason you ignored this and suddenly said I was comparing apples to oranges. Which made no sense. 60 reporters following Matsui vs 70 reporters following Ichiro. That's not apple and oranges, that's the almost exact same thing.

You have tried to turn this into a popularity in MLB issue, which was never the point of my original response to you about the reporters. You have then, against your own advice to reserve judgement until the season is half over, confidently predicting that Matsui-mania will outdo Ichiro-mania. No one knows the future, but as you made a prediction about how things may turn out, so did I:

As for in the States, 30-40 homeruns will certainly put Matsui in good company as a high level player, but I don't know if he'll stand out from the crowd like Ichiro did his first year.

My contention, basically, is that due to the difference in the types of players they are, Matsui may not stand out as Ichiro did in his rookie season. Ichiro was a novelty, no one knew how he would do, and he had an extremely unique style of play that included offense, defense, and baserunning. Matsui is a fantastic player, but he's not as an exciting player as Ichiro. I stand by that. It's not a "judgment," it's an opinion, and at most, a prediction, just like yours.

But then, you made it personal. Instead of talking about Ichiro and/or Matsui, you replied with this:

When was the last time you were actually in Japan. Don't believe every baseball tabloid that you read.

Basically implying that because my profile says my location is in Minnesota, I have no idea what I'm talking about. I'm sure you can understand why I might take some offense at this.

Sonoda-san, let me assure you that I am not the one that needs to be corrected. You have come on the board and stated your opinions, which is cool. It's the purpose of the board. But then when others have disagreed with your opinion, you tell them to reserve judgment. It doesn't work that way.

The facts are this:

• In Japan Ichiro was always more popular and well-known than Matsui. He did this despite playing for a low-profile team (I refuse to call Kobe "small market"). That's the way things were in Japan.
• In America, Ichiro was followed by a huge contingent of up to 70 reporters when he went on the road in the 2001 season. The reporters got by with few problems, despite the fact that the travel for the Mariners is particularly arduous, and the coverage of Ichiro was quite intense. It is highly unlikely that the 60 reporters following Matsui on the road will encounter many problems.

That's it. Everything else is opinion. Will Matsui become more popular than Ichiro in America? Who knows? I think not. You think so. Only time will tell.

Enjoy the season.

Thanks for your detailed reply. I am impressed. Please continue to post your opinions.

I understand Sonoda-san's over-exuberance about Matsui. He is the pride of Japan. A homerun hitter who represents the Japanese race. However, for American ball fans, Ichiro's style was a breeze of fresh air. He was "cool." With all the homerun hitters around, it was something American baseball had forgotten. Homeruns are dime-a-dozen in the US. Even if Matsui hits 40 homeruns, he will still be considered as just another Giambi or Shawn Green. Not much excitement. You have to hit 60+ in the States to get people's attention here. I don't think Matsui can surpass the excitement that Ichiro brought to the American public.

I agree with the pride of Japan part because the other Japanese players for the Yankees have been a disgrace. Starting with the orange haired pitcher "Kats something" that never made it to the majors, then Fat Toad Irabu who never got in shape. I hope a player with a good work ethic (majime) and personality can represent Japanese baseball the proper way.

As for the dime a dozen HR hitter, I don't really admire the HR hitters that cannot hit for average or are dead pull hitters. I like the all around hitters that can hit to all fields with power. The fact that he came close to winning the triple crown in Japan is what makes him special. I am not a casual fan that just looks at HR totals.

I think you are missing my point: Ichiro was the most popular NPB player in the 90s but Matsui's story is bigger due to the Kyojin/Yankees connection.

I agree with you. Tokyo and NY are the biggest media capitals. And because of this Matsui-mania will spread to even the casual or previously non-sports fan.

We shall see.

I feel sorry for the citizens of New York and Tokyo. New Yorkers and Tokyoites appear so "provincial" and "myoptic" to the rest of their respective countries. The Yankees may be "loved" in New York but are "despised" by many baseball fans in the rest of the country. Most of my Japanese friends are anti-Kyojin.

There is one other difference between Ichiro and Matsui: I live in the Puget Sound area of Washington-state. Ichiro has become the face of the team. It used to be Junior Griffey, then A-Rod, and now Ichiro. That's not going to happen with Hideki Matsui. That is Derek Jeter's team and it always will be.

As great as Edgar Martinez has been (and the past tense is intentional), and the fact that he could be elected mayor of Seattle almost by acclimation if he ran, it is always "Ichiro and the Mariners" here. It will never be "Matsui and the Yankees" in New York.

What Ichiro has done both in terms of what he has accomplished as a baseball player and then on a public relations level in such a short time despite not being all that accessible as a person and not even really speaking English very well (if at all) is unbelievable, especially since he came from a league that most never took seriously before.

I think that will be a positive thing for Matsui. He will get the attention anyway, but being on the Yankees he can share the attention. The big named stars Jeter, Giambi, Clemens, Rivera, Williams, ... will allow Matsui to play without having the pressure to carry the team.

As it was stated when the signing was made this was a financial move on the part of the Yankees. Although the TV rights and MLB goods sales in Japan will be shared by the other 29 teams advertisement and ticket sales along with the other benefits of having the Yankee name out there is tremendous. Steinbrenner can use this money to pay the luxury tax. Maybe Matsui's name should be changed from Godzilla to Golden Goose.

... and not even really speaking English very well (if at all) is unbelievable, especially since he came from a league that most never took seriously before.

I agree with Gary. And it's true that Ichiro does this while not being especially vocal; I imagine few Seattle fans could recognize his voice. However, his English ability is pretty amazing. He prefers to use an interpreter for his interviews, but he communicates with his teammates very well.

During last year's All-Star game he demonstrated his ability to the media. An ESPN show showing the All-Star game "behind the scenes" got a number of shots of him talking to Jason Giambi in the clubhouse after they'd both been pulled. And before the game started, Ichiro was walking on the field with some people, including an interpreter. As they were walking by, the camera crew asked the interpreter, "Can you ask him out to say All-Star in Japanese?" Ichiro stopped and said, in English, "It's the same thing. 'All-Star' in Japan is 'All-Star.'"

There's also this clip from MLB Radio.com: [Link Click on the "Interview with Ichiro" link (you'll need RealPlayer), and at the end of the interview you'll hear him say, in English, "I'd just like to say one thing to baseball fans around the world. You are the best. Thank you."

I live in the Puget Sound area also. It is so amazing to see all the kids and adults in Washinton and Oregon with Ichiro jerseys. I can't think of any star that has grabbed as much attention as Ichiro in the Northwest in my lifetime.

For what it's worth, according to the March 8 Daily Yomiuri: Poll shows baseball, Matsui most popular with public.

Hahaha! Good one, 1908! As if a poll done by Yomiuri Shimbun would say anything else...

The MLB regular season has not even started, but it is being reported that Matsui is being accepted by his teammates very well. And even the baseball writers are starting to take notice of his ability. I think he will do OK.

As far as his popularity goes it will just pick up as the season goes. People tend to be interested in what is new. That is why a current poll will show Matsui as being the most popular.

Let's pray he does well. If he fails, what's going to happen? I can't even imagine how the Japanese media and public will react. Also, I wanted to know what kind of numbers from Matsui is the media and public looking for.

Now that I have a better idea of where in the order he will be hitting (Torre seems to have him 5th as long as Giambi is playing) I will make my prediction.

Batting average: .280
HR: 25
RBI: 103

Some in the media will expect the numbers he put up in Japan because he is Steinbrenner's new import signing. Others (anti-Yankees) are hoping for him to fail because they think $21 million over 3 years is a lot of money for a non-MLB player.

The March 29, 2003 Japan Today [Link] reports on the results of a Japanese survey conducted by Dentsu Research Inc.

Only 30% of those polled expect Matsui to become American League Rookie of the Year.

76.4% of responadants expected Ichiro to be Rookie of the Year in a similar poll prior to the 2001 season.