Kaz Placed On Waivers

If the Mets are going to put Kaz on waivers and jerk him back off waivers, it's time they trade him. He will not play in New York at all. I understand the Mets' situation, but Kaz won't turn around by riding the bench.

Let's see what Kaz can do with a new team. This situation has been an unfortunate situation for both sides, but it's time for the Mets to trade Kaz with Anderson Hernandez due to come up this September.

I didn't know that you could pull someone off the waivers after he's been claimed by another team.

[from Editor: Is there a source for the original news item?]

As I understand, this is a technique used to see how many teams are interested in a player. I remember David Wells when a San Diego Padre was on "waivers" many times.

Although it's very common for teams to place players on waivers just to see how much interest there is, only to pull them back when another team shows interest, I do agree the Mets should trade Kazuo.

I was at the Mets' game tonight and Kaz was inserted as a pinch hitter late in the game. The moment he emerged from the dugout, he was greeted with a chorus of boos. He promptly popped out easily to right and the boos continued until he returned to the dugout. It's obvious most, if not all, have lost patience with Kaz. I don't see him turning it around with the Mets, and I can only imagine he can't be too happy here either.

I think what bothers many of the fans is his lack of emotion on the field. He almost seems robotic. It's hard to tell whether he just struck out, or won the game with a homer.

Reading many of your posts, it's obvious he had a lot of talent. It's doubtful his talent disappeared over night. It would definitely be best if he went elsewhere. If Mets tradition continues, he'll end up somewhere in the National League East and win the MVP.

The MLB rules state that after the 7/31 trading deadline a player must pass through waivers in order to be traded in August or September.

If the Mets had not pulled him back and Kaz was claimed on waivers, the claiming team would just pay the waiver claim fee and the Mets would not get a player in return. I am surprised to hear that a team claimed him because that claiming team would be responsible for the remainder of the contract.

The waiver reports on Kaz remain unsubstantiated. Nothing in the New York papers or on Rotoworld. There may be some banter by the pundits on the ESPN website, but access to the articles are part of a premium service.

Perhaps the Mets will package Kaz with Trax, who is in the last year of his contract, to a contender?

My guess is that another team was going to give the Mets something to help them compete and the waiver claim blocked it. Sweeney passed waivers in Kansas City, so maybe there was something going on there. Maybe Kaz waived his no trade clause. Who knows!

Is there any news on who made the claim? That might come into play once off-season starts and trade talks get under way.

There was an unsubstaniated rumor tonight that Boston claimed him. Gammons was reported to have said today the Mets didn't want to just dump him, so they pulled him back. They would only be on the hook for the remaining salary this year, so I am dubious. There is some speculation that he might be part of a Manny trade in the off-season, the benefit to the Mets being salary relief for Manny's $40 million over 2 years vs Kaz's $8 million for 2006. Kaz also has to waive his no-trade, but I have to believe he would go to Boston.

Gammons is usually wrong, so it's all specualtion at this point.

On Baseball Tonight (about two hours ago as I type this) Peter Gammons mentioned that Kaz had been claimed and then withdrawn. He also said that he found the withdrawal of Kaz surprising, since the Mets could've used the opportunity to dump him and his salary on the claiming team.

So, if the waiver claim/withdrawal is true, then the odds are pretty good that a potential trade is at least on the table with someone. (After all, why keep New York's least favorite son and his huge salary if you don't think you can move him in the off-season?)

However, I would find it very surprising if the potential trade partner was the Red Sox. They have Renteria at shortstop for several years (unless he's part of the deal). And with the level of fan irritation over Mark Bellhorn's lack of production at second base this year, I would be shocked if they gambled on Matsui in that spot next year. The pressure in Boston for an everyday, productive second baseman is too high at present, in my opinion, for them to gamble on Matsui.

Also, using Kaz as part of a deal for Manny Ramirez seems a bit silly. Boston's already going to have trouble dealing Manny and receiving anything even close to his level of production in return. Even if trading him means that the Sox save $20 million next year in salaries, redirecting $8 million of that to Matsui negates any potential gains there. (The odds that New York would offer to eat Kaz's salary and Manny's is astronomical.) So a swap would save neither team any money and would be an absolute steal for the Mets.

I would be stunned if Matsui winds up in Boston.

The Mets would assume $40m and be relieved of $8M, so it depends if Boston thinks he can be productive.

I think Boston would be a terrible place for Kaz. As you say, the fans are critical and in the vein of Mets fans. If he falters, he would get the same treatment.

Yes, Kaz is a gamble. He would be better off in a place like Kansas City, but it is not a given that he would want a small spotlight in a small market. I suspect something is cooking, but it is a tough deal to pull off because of the risk. If he played very well on the road, the change of scenery argument would be more persuasive, but he really hasn't over the past 18 months.

Manny in New York? Yes, yes!

I can see that, but with what New York team? The GM of the Mets could be the family favor. Look at what he has done already. Plus, Manny is from Washington Heights in New York City. Those who live in that area have bome big Met fans because of Pedro M. However, Belhorn, to my thinking, has lost his job to Graffaldo.

Red Sox taking Kaz doesn't make sense unless a secret third team is involved. So the Red Sox cut the payroll, the Mets eat Manny's contract, Kazuo and a player from Boston go to the third team which is picked by Kaz.

Here is a partial quote from Pete Gammons' report on ESPN The Insider:

To understand the way the claiming goes, here are some examples of players who were claimed - and withdrawn:

Starting pitchers: Clemens, Rodrigo Lopez, Glendon Rusch, Orlando Hernandez, Bronson Arroyo, Aaron Harang, Andy Pettitte, Doug Davis, Kyle Lohse, Vicente Padilla Brett Tomko, Jamie Moyer, Gil Meche, Josh Towers and Jeff Suppan.

Relief pitchers: Jose Valverde, Jorge Sosa, Jorge Julio, B.J. Ryan, Mike Myers, Cliff Politte, Damaso Marte, Kent Mercker, David Weathers, Sunny Kim, Ron Villone, Dan Wheeler, Jeremy Affeldt, Mike MacDougal, Brendan Donnelly, Yhency Brazoban, Chris Hammond, Akinori Otsuka, John Grabow, Matt Wise, J.C. Romero, Ryan Madson, Billy Wagner, Ugueth Urbina, Brian Shouse, Miguel Batista, Eddie Guardado, Julio Mateo and J.J. Putz.

Position players: Tony Clark, Conor Jackson, Wilson Betemit, Jay Gibbons, Bill Mueller, Kevin Youkilis, Corey Patterson, Rob Mackowiak, Dunn, Kearns, Jeff DaVanon, Russell Branyan, Kaz Matsui, Kenny Lofton and Shea Hillenbrand.

Kaz has lots of company, to put things in perspective. I would not read anything into the report at all.

So, it could mean anything or nothing to be placed on waivers, then pulled.

Exactly, many teams place players on waivers just to see who would go through then take them off before they get claimed. It's done a lot of times to see if two teams can sometimes find a trade they can work out.

It's like dropping your lure in the water to see if any fish will bite.

It is a signal that the player could be traded for the right price. Action could be through August 31 or starting at the winter meetings.

A couple responses to random points:

- Kaz has lots of company, to put things in perspective. I would not read anything into the report at all.

He could also have simply been pulled back from waivers because of a "No Trade clause." The waiver wire is probably not exempt from a "No Trade" veto. (Though I do not know this for a fact, it seems reasonable.) Kaz himself might have vetoed the claim in this way.

That being said, Kaz's situation does make him stand out from the others withdrawn from waivers. Many of the players who were also withdrawn (Clemens, Pettite, Dunn, Kearns, etc.) are not players who would be 'dumped' this year. The rest are run of the mill names, none of whom seem to have any clear reason to be either dumped or saved by their current teams, and their withdrawal can't be reasonably attributed to anything in particular.

Kaz, on the other hand, is the only one (at least, the only one that I know of) who was obviously ripe for a dump job. The fact that he was pulled back caught many people off guard. So his situation does at least hint at a trade. Certainly a bit more so than the others.

But no, it's not actually evidence of anything. Just something to be optimistic about.

In re: the Red Sox trade idea:

- The Mets would assume $40M and be relieved of $8M, so it depends if Boston thinks he can be productive.

Something which I was a bit quick to discount is that the Red Sox payroll actually is in a situation where dealing Manny might be necessary. Johnny Damon's contract expires this year. If the Sox feel that he is more vital to their future than Manny, and they don't feel they can afford both, then the salary dump is possible (after all, they do have another masher in Ortiz). Kaz would still eat up 8 of the 20 million saved in '06, but Manny's 20 million for '07 would be completely off the books which would make Damon much easier to re-sign. So including Kaz in a deal for Manny probably isn't quite as unlikely as I initially thought.

It still doesn't seem like a good idea to me, but the Sox might be willing to take him on after all if they need to free themselves from Manny's contract.

Re: Kaz outside of New York:

- If Kaz played very well on the road, the change of scenery argument would be more persuasive, but he really hasn't over the past 18 months.

That's a good point as well, but I don't think it's "scenery" as much as "atmosphere." Wherever he goes, he's still a Met. Still the same teammates, hitting coach, manager, and irritated fans. They may not be in the stands booing that day, but they're still the ones watching. The same people are calling the shots, and the same individuals are in the dugout.

Playing better outside of New York would certainly add weight to the "it's because of New York" argument, but the lack of a statistical difference doesn't necessarily discredit the argument either.

If the pressure is the problem, and it's gone to his head, it might not make a difference where he's playing on any given night. As long as he's in a Mets uniform, there are any number of things that could continue to plague him.

(Of course, this is all assuming that New York is the issue, which may well not be true. Just thought I should admit to that so as not to get flamed.)

Are you guys joking? The only way the Mets acquire Manny Ramirez is if they trade Lasting Milledge, Yusmerio Petit, more prospects, and include Kaz Matsui as a salary dump. Furthermore, the benefits of Manny Ramirez as a Boston Red Sox far outweigh the negatives.

• One, the Red Sox would be stupid to disrupt the lethal combination of David Ortiz and Manny Ramirez, two hitters who are in the upper pantheon of sluggers.
• Two, if the Red Sox lose Damon to free agency, they could replace him with either Jacque Jones, Preston Wilson, Brian Giles, Matt Lawton, or Juan Encarnacion. Yes, the Red Sox will miss Damon's productive at bats; however, the Sox will not be able to duplicate Ramirez's power. Also, all of the replacements listed would be better defensive options since Damon's weak arm makes him and Ramirez's lackadaisical fielding a liability to the BoSox.
• Finally, the Red Sox have no need or desire for Matsui since uber-prospect Hanley Ramirez should be ready to compete for second during spring training.

I can only see three possibilities for Kazuo Matsui: returning to Japan, returning to the Mets as a rather expensive pinch hitter/runner, or being traded to the Los Angeles Dodgers as part of a salary exchange (i.e. Kazuo Matsui for Darren Dreifort). Sorry Mets fans, but I would not get my hopes up.

- The only way the Mets acquire Manny Ramirez is if they trade Lasting Milledge, Yusmerio Petit, more prospects, and include Kaz Matsui as a salary dump.

I don't think that's really true. If the Sox dealt Manny, they wouldn't be looking for prospects. They'd be looking for the closest thing possible to a replacement. The Red Sox are defending champs and aren't likely to deal their most valuable player for a collection of unproven, though highly touted, prospects.

I think it's more likely that it would be a star for a star with Kaz included as a salary dump.

- One, the Red Sox would be stupid to disrupt the lethal combination of David Ortiz and Manny Ramirez, two hitters who are in the upper pantheon of sluggers.

Maybe, maybe not. I remember when the A's traded Jose Canseco away while keeping Mark McGwire. Everyone was stunned that they broke up their one-two punch. It happens. Not often, but it does.

- if the Red Sox lose Damon to free agency, they could replace him with either Jacque Jones, Preston Wilson, Brian Giles, Matt Lawton, or Juan Encarnacion.

It's not necessarily a question of replacing Damon with a greater hitter or defender. Damon is a leadoff hitter, and one of the best in the business. None of the players you mentioned do what Damon does. Only Matt Lawton is potential leadoff hitter material, and his numbers are far inferior to Damon.

- the Red Sox have no need or desire for Matsui since uber-prospect Hanley Ramirez should be ready to compete for second during spring training.

That's true. But it's not certain that Ramirez will be taking second base. He could also move in at third, or bump Renteria from shortstop. So if the Sox had already received Matsui in a deal, he'd still be able to compete for the job. You're right, though, second base does seem likely to go to Hanley. (I thought he was a third baseman by trade, which is why I didn't consider him at second.)

- [...] or being traded to the Los Angeles Dodgers as part of a salary exchange

Yes. I agree that this is more likely. Though I'm not sure why you think that the Dodgers are the only option. (There were people on ESPN's Mets message board discussing something similar regarding San Francisco's Edgardo Alfonzo.)

- Sorry Mets fans, but I would not get my hopes up.

I'm sure this wasn't directed at me, but it does give me an opportunity to clarify my own allegiances regarding this issue:

I can't stand the modern Mets. I have no interest in them whatsoever. The last time I liked the Mets was when they had Dykstra, Gary Carter, Keith Hernandez, Strawberry, Gooden, etc. in the mid '80s. I think they're a mess now and thoroughly unenjoyable to watch. (Just my opinion, Mets fans. If you disagree and love your Mets, I have no problem with that.)

I also don't want to see Manny leave the Sox. I think it would be a bad deal for them.

But the possibilities for a trade of Manny have been strongly suggested, both by the failed move at the trade deadline and the continued rumor that Ramirez will be moved in the off-season. And I don't like to see players ride the bench on a team which doesn't want them, so I'm interested in seeing Kaz get dealt.

Basically I'm just having a good time kicking ideas around.

There were talks of Kaz going to Boston for Doug Mientkiewicz before Mientkiewicz actually went to Shea for Ian Bladergoen. That rumor didn't go very far, I don't think Kaz will go to Boston this time either.

- (I thought he was a third baseman by trade, which is why I didn't consider him at second.)

Hanley Ramirez is a shortstop by trade. He will probably be bumped to second now that Bellhorn was designated for assignment. This is most likely why Boston will not be interested in Kaz Matsui. They have prospect Hanley Ramirez waiting at second base.

More importantly, the pressure at Boston is worse for Kazuo in my opinion than at Shea. I rather see Kaz traded to Kansas City, Colorado, Seattle, or somewhere else. I prefer he stay away from the pressure of Fenway.

- I can't stand the modern Mets.

I don't hate the modern Mets, I just dislike the what Wilpon and Minaya/Duquette, along with Steve Phillips, turned them into. I was a big fan of the Mets when Bobby Valentine managed them, my interest in them after Valentine was dimissed, though, has waned. After Valentine the Mets have seemed lost or still searching for a answer.

In conclusion, the possibilty of Kazuo being traded to Boston are very unlikely, possibly 0%. As for Kaz being traded at all, it looks very unlikely, too. It's a very unforunate situation as Kaz will not play that much next month as the Mets will most likely promote Anderson Hernandez from Norfolk. Hopefully the Mets can work a trade out with another team and Kaz can get a new start with a new team.

There are all kinds of waivers for many different occasions. But essentially, here is how waiver deals can be made between August 1 and the August 31 deadline for setting potential playoff rosters:

• Virtually every player in the major leagues will be placed on waivers this month, whether a team intends to trade that player or not. If nothing else, the sheer volume of names can at least disguise players whom clubs do want to sneak through so they can be dealt.


• If a player isn't claimed by any team in either league, he can be traded until the end of the month to anyone.


• If a player is claimed, but only by one team, the player can be traded only to the team that claims him.


• If a player is claimed by more than one team, the club with the worst record in that player's league gets priority - and the player can be traded only to that team.


• If a player is claimed only by teams in the other league, the club with the worst record in the other league gets priority - and the player can be traded just to that team.


• If a deal can't be worked out or the team doesn't want to trade that player, he can be pulled back off waivers once in August. If he is placed on waivers again before September, he can't be recalled a second time.


• Or, if a team is just hoping to dump a player's salary, it can simply allow a team which claimed that player to have him for a small waiver fee. If that happens, the team that gets the player has to pay his entire salary. That's how the Yankees were stuck with Jose Canseco and the Padres were stuck with Randy Myers in recent years: They claimed those players, thinking they were just blocking other teams from getting them. Instead, their old clubs said: "You claimed him. You got him."


• Many teams claimed players just to keep them from being traded to contenders with a better record. The Minnesota Twins claimed Alfonso Soriano the other day, just to block the teams above them in the wild card standings from getting him. He was pulled back off waivers as the prospects the Rangers wanted would not have cleared waivers, as the Twins would have had to place them on waivers and hope no one claimed them before the waiver trade would become official.

Kaz had a fine game tonight. Starting against the Diamondbacks in Phoenix, he went 3 for 4, a HBP, and a walk. Had a throwing error.

Maybe it is appropriate that he did this in Phoenix, because like the mythical bird, he might rise from the flames and ashes to new heights.

I forgot to mention an astute base running play by Kaz. Here's a nice snippet from Thursday's New York Times:

The second baseman Kazuo Matsui has impressed Randolph with his work ethic and defense and will likely receive more playing time over the coming days. He went 3 for 4 and in the second inning, before the Mets unleashed their power, and he made a veteran base-running play. With the bases loaded and one out, Beltran grounded to second baseman Craig Counsell, who looked toward home and tried to tag the oncoming Matsui before getting the sure out at first base. Matsui, meanwhile, played keepaway between first and second long enough for Reyes to score from second before he was tagged out. The result: Two runs scored on your typical 4-3-6-3-6-1 double play.

Kazuo also got plunked by the normally controlled Worrell. Seems like a chicken shite move to me. Kaz of all people? Maybe the run down embarassed them. Maybe Petey will retaliate tomorrow for his team mate? He does have to hit, unlike in the American League, and the umps will throw a guy out if they think he intentionally hit a batter.

OT: The Mets seem rejuvinated. Mike Jacobs got called up from AA as an emergency catcher and is now filling in at first, providing power. 4 homers in 4 games.

Jae Weong Seo continued to dominate, with an ERA now at 1.30. He is now a complete pitcher. Before, he was fastball/change-up. Now he has 5 pitches and mixes it up real well. All the starters are learning from Pedro Martinez, who while not having a blazing fastball anymore, mixes it up and is as effective as ever. Even future HOFer Tom Glavine has learned a thing or two.

If the Mets stay on a roll and Matsui continues to produce, Kaz will return to Shea and should not have to endure the booing of the past. The chemistry has changed. Kaz, if he plays well, will help the team and find appreciation. I already sense the tide is turning.

- I don't think that's really true. If the Sox dealt Manny, they wouldn't be looking for prospects. They'd be looking for the closest thing possible to a replacement. The Red Sox are defending champs and aren't likely to deal their most valuable player for a collection of unproven, though highly touted, prospects.

The New York Mets, BoSox, Tampa Bay deal fell through because the Red Sox wanted both Aubrey Huff and Lasting Milledge, while the D-Rays felt if they were dealing Huff and Dannys Baez, then they deserved Milledge. After trying to work out a deal just between the Sox and Mets, the Red Sox wanted Mike Cameron, Milledge, and other highly rated prospects which the Mets politely replied "no thanks."

- I think it's more likely that it would be a star for a star with Kaz included as a salary dump

Outside of Jose Reyes and a couple of BoSox outcasts in Pedro Martinez and Clifford Floyd, the Mets lack a "star" that would fill a glaring need for the BoSox.

- It's not necessarily a question of replacing Damon with a greater hitter or defender. Damon is a leadoff hitter, and one of the best in the business. None of the players you mentioned do what Damon does. Only Matt Lawton is potential leadoff hitter material, and his numbers are far inferior to Damon.

Although he is a massive headache, Manny Ramirez is more important to the Sox than Damon. Just look at what other teams, GMs, and scouts are saying about him, Manny Ramirez is the most feared hitter in baseball. Ramirez' effortless ability to hit home runs to the opposite field is almost mythical. Also, Hanley Ramirez or Kevin Youkilis (he may not be fast, but he excels at working the count and getting on base) could bat lead-off while Jones, Wilson, or Giles bats sixth or seventh in the lineup. Furthermore, Damon's asking price is starting to wear thin with the BoSox front office.

- That's true. But it's not certain that Ramirez will be taking second base. He could also move in at third, or bump Renteria from shortstop. So if the Sox had already received Matsui in a deal, he'd still be able to compete for the job. You're right, though, second base does seem likely to go to Hanley. (I thought he was a third baseman by trade, which is why I didn't consider him at second.)

Hanley Ramirez will be at second next year while Youkilis will be at third. The BoSox have been looking for quite some time now of fitting Youkilis' plate productivity into the lineup and, with declining Bill Mueller being a free agent at the end of the year, next season will be their chance.

- Yes. I agree that this is more likely. Though I'm not sure why you think that the Dodgers are the only option. (There were people on ESPN's Mets message board discussing something similar regarding San Francisco's Edgardo Alfonzo.)

Matsui has a limited no-trade clause that only allows the Mets to deal him to either Los Angeles, Anaheim, or Seattle. He'd probably waive it to play in San Francisco; thus, the Alfonzo for Matsui deal seems to be the most likely scenario.

Kaz was on base 5 times the August 25 game, 3 hits, a walk, and a HBP. Willie Randolph said he was impressed with his work ethics and might replace Cairo.

This seems like an ill-timed article by Long Island Newday on Kaz, but it addresses the speculation on this board. Basically, they say Kaz is done as a Met. No one took him on waivers. They would eat half his salary.

No other paper did a story on this. In fact, Willie Randolph has had some complimentary statements printed on Kaz. As they say, "You can't believe everything that's printed in the papers." Anything can happen. A lot depends on the road trip, whether Kaz gets hot and regains his form.

Cairo is no great shakes, but Willie knows him from the Yankees, has been steadier, and thinks he is a steadying influence on Reyes. If Kaz gets some play in and performs, I think he can get the starting job back. The door is not sealed.

On the other hand, if the Mets can upgrade a second baseman in the off-season, they will.

kaz has been impressive lately.

Probably too little too late, but Kaz is hitting .400 in September so far. Why couldn't he do this at the beginning of the season? Oh well.