Starting Rotation
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Re: Starting Rotation
[ Author: Guest | Posted: Jul 13, 2005 11:27 AM
]
Being a college pitcher ( in Canada ) I've always prefered to throw batting practice between starts .When I didn't , my arm was too strong , and I didn't had any control over my pitches.
Re: Starting Rotation
[ Author: Christopher | Posted: Jul 14, 2005 5:30 PM
| HAN Fan
]
Do they? I was under the impression that only Tigers were still doing this and the others used 5 pitcher rotations. Maybe I'm wrong.
Re: Starting Rotation
[ Author: Something Lions | Posted: Jul 14, 2005 6:55 PM
| SL Fan
]
Okay, it seems even more arbitrary than I stated. I just went through the top 13 qualifying pitchers of each league sorted by ERA on Yahoo Japan. So, this is a list of starters who have been pitching regularly this year and performing decently (there's no handy sortable and deep stats like ESPN, unfortunately). And the individual pitcher's page has the past 6 games (usually all starts) he was in. And in those 5 game intervals of 26 pitchers, I noticed exactly two starts that had 4 days rest. Most starts were on 5-7 days rest. There were some starts on 8 days rest(!) and anything longer than that I assumed would be due to injury (reported or not), but maybe I'm wrong (why would you keep your productive starter from pitching? Maybe to wait for a particular opponent?) Also, NPB schedule is full of off days, so that throws wrenches into a regular rotation. I need to do something more than a quick research. Does it make any difference if a pitcher has 5 days or 7 days rest? Or does throwing in practice negate the difference of a few days?
Re: Starting Rotation
[ Author: Guest: UMASS | Posted: Jul 18, 2005 12:44 PM
]
I totally agree with you, why dont they use 5-man rotation. I often follow the Giants and Hanshin'staff. Their starters are 6 man. Perhaps, the problem is lack of quality relieve pitcher, if you dont let starters go deep.
In the case of Hanshin this year, they have a good bunch of RP like Fujigawa, Williams, Kubota, Egusa and Hashimoto and 6 quality starters (Igawa, Fukuhara, Shimoyanagi, Sugiyama, Andoh, and Brown). I would like to see Igawa, Shimoyanagi, Sugiyama and Andoh have more games and use Brown as a RP.
In the case of Hanshin this year, they have a good bunch of RP like Fujigawa, Williams, Kubota, Egusa and Hashimoto and 6 quality starters (Igawa, Fukuhara, Shimoyanagi, Sugiyama, Andoh, and Brown). I would like to see Igawa, Shimoyanagi, Sugiyama and Andoh have more games and use Brown as a RP.
Re: Starting Rotation
[ Author: Christopher | Posted: Jul 18, 2005 1:02 PM
| HAN Fan
]
Hanshin also have Nohmi and Taiyo waiting in the wings. Brown is due to drop back to the farm team and Taiyo come into the starting rotation for the Shinorodo games.
I suspect that with the amount of innings the starters are expected to pitch a six man rotation is a good idea to avoid burnout.
I suspect that with the amount of innings the starters are expected to pitch a six man rotation is a good idea to avoid burnout.
Re: Starting Rotation
[ Author: mijow | Posted: Jul 18, 2005 1:08 PM
| HT Fan
]
And if the strategy aint broke, don't fix it. I think the Tigers are paranoid (and rightly so considering their history) of late season burnouts - and not only from the pitching staff.
Re: Starting Rotation
[ Author: Something Lions | Posted: Jul 19, 2005 3:36 PM
| SL Fan
]
It may not be broke, but maybe it could be improved?
If the emphasis was taken off complete games, and if starters are put on stricter pitch counts, they could start more games by going with a 5 man rotation. This way, there would be no 6th starter who would obviously be the weakest link in the rotation that decreases the chance of winning the games he starts. And instead of having a 6th starter, your top 5 starters will get to start more games, which should increase your chances of winning those games. Especially with your ace starting more games.
So, this is a tradeoff between starters going long into the game, and having more starts. I think the latter would be more productive. Unless your bullpen is so atrocious that a tired starter is still better than your relief pitchers..
If the emphasis was taken off complete games, and if starters are put on stricter pitch counts, they could start more games by going with a 5 man rotation. This way, there would be no 6th starter who would obviously be the weakest link in the rotation that decreases the chance of winning the games he starts. And instead of having a 6th starter, your top 5 starters will get to start more games, which should increase your chances of winning those games. Especially with your ace starting more games.
So, this is a tradeoff between starters going long into the game, and having more starts. I think the latter would be more productive. Unless your bullpen is so atrocious that a tired starter is still better than your relief pitchers..
Re: Starting Rotation
[ Author: Christopher | Posted: Jul 20, 2005 9:55 AM
| HAN Fan
]
An interesting choice - pitch your starters longer for fewer matches or more matches with fewer pitches. As far as I can say it doesn't actually make any difference. Starters working on a five pitcher less pitching rotation can pitch just as poorly as starters on a six pitcher more pitching rotation. Of course if you pitch a lot of pitches on a five pitcher rotation you burn out quicker.
What I like about Okada's current six pitcher rotation is that he pulls pitchers if they start to tire and get hit.
What I like about Okada's current six pitcher rotation is that he pulls pitchers if they start to tire and get hit.
Pitching Effectiveness
[ Author: Something Lions | Posted: Jun 4, 2006 11:42 PM
| SL Fan
]
Itoh-kantoku didn't pull Nishiguchi today in the 9th against the Giants, even though he'd obviously been losing effectiveness and starting to get hit hard after more than 130 pitches. Seibu went on to lose the game, giving up a sayonara sacrifice fly.
Interestingly, on a Lions message board many Japanese fans left messages saying Nishiguchi can't be blamed for the loss (true enough), but that Itoh couldn't pull Nishiguchi because he's kept the Giants to 1 run all game. I thought it was odd that no one thought Nishiguchi was losing effectiveness, but the concept of pitch count is very foreign here and many people seem to believe that pitcher's effectiveness doesn't change through the game.
Interestingly, on a Lions message board many Japanese fans left messages saying Nishiguchi can't be blamed for the loss (true enough), but that Itoh couldn't pull Nishiguchi because he's kept the Giants to 1 run all game. I thought it was odd that no one thought Nishiguchi was losing effectiveness, but the concept of pitch count is very foreign here and many people seem to believe that pitcher's effectiveness doesn't change through the game.
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Personally I think opportunity is wasted in NPB to get the most out of the top starters because of the long rotation, and high pitch count. If an ace were able to pitch every 5th day instead of every 7th day, he'd be more valuable to the team, as starting pitchers are the deciding factor in many baseball games. But then again, the NPB schedule has many days off, so the number of days between starts would vary between 4 and 5 under this scheme and maybe it's better for the rotation to have a regular number of days of rest between starts.
What do you think?
Also, there's the number of practice pitches thrown between starts. Anyone have any idea on how much stress this puts on the starters' arms? Japanese pitchers probably end up pitching more in a year, when including camp and practices.