Difference

> Hi, I'm doing a project on Japanese baseball. I'm
> looking to see what the biggest difference between
> the Major Leagues and Japanese baseball is, if there
> is any. One last question, is Mr.Baseball an
> accurate depiction of what Japanese baseball is like?
> If you've answered this question before, I
> apologize, but I couldn't find it. Thanks for your
> time!
>
> AJ

Wow. One influence I'd have to say Ichiro has had on the American culture is the increase in projects on Japanese baseball!

Mr. Baseball was fairly accurate 15 years or so ago. It's dated now. And it's got a few weak spots. The characterization of the Japanese executives was somewhat unrealistic, I thought. Japanese players don't spit on the field not because it's "sacred" (really, only Koshien stadium could be thought that way), but because spitting on the ground in Japan is just considered rude. Especially on turf. Also, the whole thing with Selleck almost breaking Uchiyama's record was stretched. It was an obvious allusion to the Randy Bass incident, but it come off badly. Japanese players would try to keep even other Japanese players from breaking a record held by their own coach/manager, but they wouldn't give a fig about the record of a manager of another team, foreign player or not. Bass never would have gotten to 54 if the Japanese leagues as a whole tried to keep him from breaking the record.

Start off by going to the Nichi-Bei forum. Pretty much any topic with over 5 comments will have some sort of comparison between the leagues. Some for better, some for worse. But it is a research project, right?

Also, I just posted an e-mail interview of myself that answers a great many of the questions report writers are asking. It's a good example of writing questions with narrower scope than "What [is] the biggest difference between [MLB] and [NPB]?"

The Mr. Baseball question is a nice, narrowly defined one. That's why CFiJ-san was able to give you such a clear, concise answer.

I would add to CFiJ-san's comment that when I read Warren Cromartie's "Slugging it out in Japan", it reminded me a great deal of Mr. Baseball, leading me to belive that that's what the movie was based on.

If you post your rough draft here when it's ready, you've got a lot of proof readers who can most likely contribute a great deal more insight. If you look at the comments to various news articles, you'll seen what I mean.

> Start off by going to the Nichi-Bei forum.
> Pretty much any topic with over 5
> comments will have some sort of comparison between
> the leagues. Some for better, some for worse. But
> it is a research project, right?

I can not stress enough that this site can be an excellent resource for a project, but only if you use it right. None of us are experts on Japanese baseball; we are merely fans who enjoy sharing news and opinions about it. Asking us questions is not an effective way to get information for a paper. We can point you in the right directions, and as Westbay-san has suggested, we can even help correct mistakes, but you will have to find and learn the information for yourself.

> I would add to CFiJ-san's comment that when I read
>Warren Cromartie's "Slugging it out in Japan",
> it reminded me a great deal of Mr.
> Baseball, leading me to belive that that's what the
> movie was based on.

According to an interview with Robert Whiting in Mangajin, Mr. Baseball was based (at least partly) off of a film treatment he wrote back in 1987. The main story probably went through some changes as it underwent the usual Hollywood rewrite process. It was released in 1992, which means primary filming probably took place in 1991, the same year Slugging It Out in Japan came out. I think it probably took more from You Gotta Have Wa, since that came out in 1990.

Incidently, it would seem that the US-Japan trade friction-based comedy "Gung Ho", came out in 1986. With Whiting being asked to write the treatment in 1987 and with the tone of both movies being very similar, I imagine the impetus of making Mr. Baseball was to capture that same cross cultural heartwarming comedy feeling.

Actually, Robert Whiting, the author of the books "The Chrysanthemum and the Bat" and "You Gotta Have Wa" sued Univeral Pictures (I believe it was Universal) and won a lawsuit against the producers of the movie "Mr. Baseball." He contended that the producers directly stole scenes from his book and used them in the movie.
I believe he was upset about things like Tom Selleck turning his bat upside down a la Daryl Spencer and Selleck jumping into the bath without washing himself off which was described in the book also.

The irony of "Mr. Baseball" was that there were a lot of similiarities between that movie and the smash hit movie "Major League." There was a bunt at the end of the movie to win the game in both films, they were both comedies, and a former Milwaukee Brewers pitcher played the slugger for the most prestigious team in their respective leagues (Pete Vukovich played the Yankees' slugger while Brad "The Animal" Lesley played the Yomiuri Giants' slugger).

> Actually, Robert Whiting, the author of the books
> "The Chrysanthemum and the Bat" and "You Gotta Have
> Wa" sued Univeral Pictures (I believe it was
> Universal) and won a lawsuit against the producers of
> the movie "Mr. Baseball." He contended that the
> producers directly stole scenes from his book and
> used them in the movie.
> I believe he was upset about things like Tom Selleck
> turning his bat upside down a la Daryl Spencer and
> Selleck jumping into the bath without washing himself
> off which was described in the book also.

I'd have to side against Whiting-san on that one. Spencer holding his bat upside down was an actual event, a news item. Nagashima did a similar thing, not even holding his bat in his hands when he was being intentionally walked. Whiting holds the copyright to the words he wrote, not to the intellectual idea of an American suketto being demonstrative at the plate. And the whole bathing thing was simply a good medium for showing cultural differences. The Highlander TV show used a similar episode when it's main character visited historical Japan.

> The irony of "Mr. Baseball" was that there were a lot
> of similiarities between that movie and the smash hit
> movie "Major League." There was a bunt at the end of
> the movie to win the game in both films, they were
> both comedies, and a former Milwaukee Brewers pitcher
> played the slugger for the most prestigious team in
> their respective leagues (Pete Vukovich played the
> Yankees' slugger while Brad "The Animal" Lesley
> played the Yomiuri Giants' slugger).

Hmmm...and with Major League coming out in 1989, I can almost imagine the pitch in the studio exec's office, like in "The Player": "It'll be "Gung Ho" meets "Major League!"

I thought the "prima donna adapts to new culture" part of it was good, and I thought the backdrop of Japanese baseball was good for it's time, but the baseball storyline kinda sucked. I mean, a bunt with the bases loaded?

Well, that and him dating Takakura Ken's daughter. Takakura's character was supposed to be a revered, famous manager like Nagashima. Can you imagine the press bonanza if a suketto fresh off the plane started going out with Nagashima's daughter? Hell, not even Nagashima. It'd be all sorts of crazy if he was dating Wakamatsu-kantoku's daughter!

I agree with CFiJ-san assessment of the movie "Mr. Baseball." Like he said, the part about Selleck's character trying to adjust to Japan and Japanese baseball was interesting, especially when he would have to learn the little nuansances of "yakyu" from Dennis Haysbert's character Max. Also, the fact that the movie used actual former players in the film helped make the baseball scenes more realistic.

Unfortunately, we never were told why Takakura Ken's character spoke English so well. I mean, that and the part where the American player starts reading the Japanese sports paper with ease was a load of bull. The day that an American player starts reading a Japanese paper that easily is the day that Mike Greenwell comes back to play for the Hanshin Tigers. And we'll never see a Japanese manager speaking English like that. I know that Sadaharu Oh speaks a little English, but no manager is going to be that fluent in English like Takakura Ken's character Uchiyama.

The love story was also unncecessary and very unrealistic. To make things realistic, they should've just had Tom Selleck's character married to an American woman whom he leaves back in the States while he has an affair with a Japanese woman (or two) while he's over here in Japan. Now, that's what I call reality!

This has nothing to do with baseball or Mr. Baseball, but I have to say that Gung Ho was a funny movie, but again it was unrealistic in many ways. I mean, the Japanese executives were speaking to each other in English! And when they did speak Japanese, it was horribly accented! I know it was because they used Japanese-American actors, but come on, that was silly. There are many Japanese actors working in Hollywood who could've spoken both languages well and made the movie more realistic--actors like Mako who was in Rising Sun.

Was "Mr. Baseball" released in Japan and if so, how was it viewed by Japanese film critics and the moviegoing public? I remember the criticism of "Rising Sun" - some segments of dialogue were just scissored out for the Japanese release.

Yes, "Mr. Baseball" was indeed released in Japan, albeit much later than the U.S. release. The movie came out in October of '92 in the U.S., but since the Chunichi Dragons didn't do that well that season, Universal decided to push back the release date to March of '93. I was here in Japan and I was dying to see the film, so it really ticked me off when Universal did that.

I've seen both the U.S. and Japanese versions of "Mr. Baseball," and I have to say that for the most part they're almost exactly the same. There is one scene in it that was in the Japanese version that was cut from the U.S. version. It's the scene after the scene where Ken Takakura and Tom Selleck go for a walk and Takakura's character says, "It has to be my way, or the highway." In the U.S. version, that was the end of their conversation, but in the Japanese version they keep walking until they visit a graveyard where they both pray.

I forgot to mention in an earlier post another similarity between the movies "Major League" and "Mr. Baseball." They were both comedies, they both ended with a bunt, they both had former Brewers pitchers playing a slugger on the hated rival team, and they both had Dennis Haysbert in their movies (he played Cerrano in "ML" and Max Dubois in "MB").

In the US, MLB ballplayers are talented individuals who are good at the national pastime. It's still just a game for the most part. They come to the ballpark to play. In Japan, NPB ballplayers are talented workers (salaryman) who are good at baseball and work for a corporation. They come to the ballpark representing the company they play for. They come to the ballpark to work.

One misconception that lot of people have about Japanese ball is that the reason for why there is a time limit in a game and a tie game. The reason they have tie-games is because they don't want to "save face" to preserve harmony. That is totally wrong. The only reason there is a tie-game in Japan is simply because people come to the ball park by train or buses for the most part. They don't drive to get to the park. Japanese trains and buses don't run overnight. The service ends around 12:30 AM. We don't want people to take a cab which is extremely expensive. It's just a matter of convenience.

During the World War II, the government didn't allow tie-game because it was against yamatodamashii (Japanese Spirit) unless the sun went down (no nightgames). Japanese men were expected to fight until the bitter end to complete their duty.

The longest game in Japanese baseball was recorded during this period in 1942. It was a 4-4 tie game between Taiyo (Not the same as Taiyo Whales. Tokyo Senators until 1941, but they weren't allowed to use english nicknames during the war) and Nagoya (presently Chunichi Dragons) which ended due to darkness. Both starting pitchers, Jiro Noguchi (Taiyo) and Michio Nishizawa (Nagoya) completed 28 innings. Both throwing 311 pitches!!!

FYI in 1942, Jiro Noguchi, the original Hall of Fame iron-man of Japanese ball pitched 66 games with 40W-17L and pitched an incredible 527.1 innings with an ERA of 1.19. He has a lifetime 236 wins with an ERA of 1.96. He also played first base on an off-day and hit 0.248 lifetime with a 31-game hitting streak record!!! Sorry I got carried away!!!

>One
> misconception that lot of people have about Japanese
> ball is that the reason for why there is a time
> limit in a game and a tie game. The reason they
> have tie-games is because they want to "save
> face" to preserve harmony. That is totally wrong.
> The only reason there is a tie-game in Japan is
> s simply because people come to the ball park by
> train or buses for the most part. They don't drive
> to get to the park. Japanese trains and buses don't
> run overnight. The service ends around 12:30 AM. We
> don't want people to take a cab which is extremely
> expensive. It's just a matter of
> convenience.

I've always thought that "prefer ties" stuff was a bunch of hogwash. The problem is that it's in Whiting's book, which is the main reference people use, so until someone writes a book that's as high profile, the same misconceptions will be repeated...

> During the World War II, the
> government didn't allow tie-game because it was
> against yamatodamashii (Japanese Spirit)
> unless the sun went down (no nightgames). Japanese
> men were expected to fight until the bitter end to
> complete their duty.

The longest game in Japanese
> baseball was recorded during this period in 1942. It
> was a 4-4 tie game between Taiyo (Not the same as
> Taiyo Whales. Tokyo Senators until 1941, but they
> weren't allowed to use english nicknames during the
> war) and Nagoya (presently Chunichi Dragons) which
> ended due to darkness. Both starting pitchers, Jiro
> Noguchi (Taiyo) and Michio Nishizawa (Nagoya)
> completed 28 innings. Both throwing 311
> pitches!!!
>
> FYI in 1942, Jiro Noguchi, the original
> Hall of Fame iron-man of Japanese ball pitched 66
> games with 40W-17L and pitched an incredible 527.1
> innings with an ERA of 1.19. He has a lifetime 236
> wins with an ERA of 1.96. He also played first base
> on an off-day and hit 0.248 lifetime with a 31-game
> hitting streak record!!! Sorry I got carried away!!!

No, not at all! This was real interesting. I remember reading about the long extra-inning games of the pre-time limit era, in an article Chiba-san wrote for ShuBe.

You know, it's hard to compete with Whiting because he's had (has?) access to the players, but it'd be neat I think to be able to write a book about Japanese baseball that doesn't have quite the "gaijin" slant You Gotta Have Wa has. Something that talks about what Pro Yakyu is, rather than just how it's different from MLB.

Was Whiting's "You Gotta Have Wa" published in Japan and if so, how did the country's baseball fans and book reviewers receive it? I know Whiting wrote a number of Japanese-language books strictly for the Japanese market.

"Wa" was published in Japanese in 1990 by Kadokawa. It sold 80,000 copies in hardcover, made it as far as #4 on one nationwide list, and sold 120,000 copies in hardcover -- thanks, in great part, to a wonderful translation by Masayuki Tamaki. In a 1990 survey, "Bukusu (Books) Magazine" rated it as one of the top 50 top non-fiction books published in Japanese in the 20 century. I wonder what they'd say now.

The reason the "gaijin" theme predominates is because that's what U.S. publishers want. It's very difficult to interest New York editors in books about Japanese athletes. I know, I've tried. The only exception to the rule I know of was David Falkner's fine book about Sadaharu Oh. Cultural conflict is, unfortunately, what sells.

I don't remember ever writing that Japanese prefer or desire ties to preserve harmony. The copy on the back cover of the Vintaqe edition of "Wa" says "tie scores are encouraged; that way nobody loses face," and that to me is another way of explaining why ties are allowed, not "preferred."

Here is some history. In 1989, after a season when the Seibu Lions registered fewer victories than the Kintetsu Buffaloes but still won the pennant by virtue of more ties, writer Masyuki Tamaki, who is a close friend of mine, interviewed the Pacific League president to see if something could be done to change the system. Why not suspend a game, he suggested, if it got too late and play it out the next day before that evening's regularly scheduled contest? The P.L. president replied that there was nothing wrong with a tie, that it rewarded both sides for fighting hard, and that it suited the Japanese national character because the result was harmonious--or words to that effect.

I can understand why people need to get home at a decent hour, train connections and all. But I could never grasp why an afternoon game had to end in a tie (and then be replayed).

One more thing about ties and then I'll stop monopolizing your web site. I can't tell you how many times I have heard American players marvel at the attitude of their Japanese teammates towards tie games. "They don't mind if it's a tie, in fact they are happy because then they are off the hook." That's something I've heard again and again and again -- from days of Daryl Spencer on through the eras of Dave Johnson, Reggie Smith, Randy Bass, the Lee Brothers and into the present. With a tie the risk of losing has been removed. And if you are a player on a Japanese team that means no criticism from the coach that night in the post-game "hansei-kai," no fines, and no special practices called the next day for screwing up. You can go out and get drunk with a clear conscience.

I've been visiting this site for a long time, and I have to say that it was a thrill to see that Mr. Whiting has joined the various discussions. I am a huge Robert Whiting fan as I have read all of his baseball books, starting with "Chrysanthemum and the Bat" and ending with "Slugging it out in Japan," and I've even read "Tokyo Underworld."

One thing I'd like to ask Mr. Whiting is, why haven't you written any more baseball books? I personally believe that there is a dearth of good sports books out there, both in the U.S. and Japan, and it would be great if you could come up with another one. Now I realize that you can't just write a good baseball book out of the blue, but I would be willing to help you research or type or whatever....

I'm getting so desperate to read a baseball book that I've ordered Omar Vizquel's book from Amazon. The last good baseball books that I read were Goose Gossage's book and Don Zimmer's book. Ironically, both of those books touched on their experiences in Japan.

It was interesting that you mentioned David Falkner's book on Sadaharu Oh. I read that book and really enjoyed it. As a matter of fact, I still have a copy of it. I read that as a kid growing up in the U.S. and it was fascinating to be able to read a book written in English and published in the U.S. about a Japanese baseball hero.

Dear Kenny: Thanks for the kind words and the offer of help. By the time I finished the Cromartie book in 1991 I had really OD'd on Japanese Baseball. In addition to the 3 I'd written in English, I'd done 10 more in Japanese, which came from 17 years of writing magazine articles and columns on pro yakyu for several periodicals: the Shukan Asahi, Daily Sports, Number and Shukan Sankei among others. I needed a break, so I researched and wrote "Tokyo Underworld."

Recently, however, I signed a contract with Time-Warner to do a book on the Japanese baseball phenomenon in the States, what it means for Japan, etc. It's due out in the spring of 2004 and I'm presently buried in a mountain of paper.

There is one thing I'd like some feedback on. In "Wa" I wrote about how Japanese fans sitting in the infield seats were more shy, reserved and courteous compared to their counterparts in US ballparks and that it was only when they sat in the "oendan" or cheering sections that they loosened up. Do you, or anyone else, reading this think it is still true--if you ever did, that is? Is there a difference in manners between the non-oendan fan in Japan and the American spectator in a U.S. stadium? Are North Americans more participatory? Or are we pretty much the same? Is Japanese youth less inhibited and more agressive than a generation ago? Or not? Are there regional variations in both countries? Opinions please.

I'm new to website discussions here, so I hope this an appropriate request.

Bob Whiting E-mail: rwhiting@gol.com
RWhiting99@yahoo.com

Hi Whiting-san, and what a most excellent choice of topic!

I speak from the point of view of a semi-permanent resident of the right-field terraces of Koshien.

While there are always exceptions, in general, the gaiya crowds are deafening, hyper-active, and often oblivious to the fact that our team is being thrashed, and the naiya crowds are not as raucous (note I refrain from calling them 'quiet,' 'subdued,' or whatever). I, too, have pondered this, and while I think it'd probably take a sociologist or shrink to give authoritative answers, I draw some parallels with baseball crowd behaviour and that in other situations.

The one that leaps to mind first is the "traffic light" mentality, namely "aka-shingo, minna-ga watareba daijobu (it'll be OK to cross the road on a red signal if everyone crosses at the same time)." While I'm sure that people in all areas of the ground want to sing the cheer-songs and whack their little skittles, perhaps the fact that the oendan, armed with their trumpets and drums, are concentrated in the outfield stands means that only those in the cheap seats have the courage to do so.

Secondly (but similarly) is the concept of precedence. It exists in all areas of life in Japan... and not just in Japan, for that matter. For instance, judges will hesitate to hand down seemingly common-sense rulings if such a ruling has never been handed down before; company middle-managers will refuse their subordinates' innovative ideas because that kind of thing has never been done before. Perhaps baseball crowds would be only too happy to join in the cheering activities if someone else did it first.

Finally, I also wonder whether it is a (1) baseball or (2) Japan phenomenon. Is it not common to all sports in all countries for the cheap seats to be rowdier than the box seats?

Okay, thanks. What's the difference in general between the behavior of "naiya seki" fans in Japan and the U.S., if any?

Mr. Whiting, that's great to hear that you are currently working on a new baseball book. I can't wait to read it. I am serious when I say that I would love to help, so if you don't mind I will contact you privately when I have some time.

As for questions, I think you are absolutely right when you say that the fans in Japan who sit in the infield seats are more reserved than the oendan fans, especially at Tokyo Dome for a Giants' game where you have more corporate or yuppie types, whereas the cheering section fans are less inhibited and more willing to make fools out of themselves.

I also believe that the cheering section fans lose their inhibitions because of akashingo mentality like the other poster said, and because of the "strength in numbers" mentality. They know that even if they push it too far and instigate a problem or a fight, one of their cheering brothers will back them up.

I think the fans in the U.S. are, for the most part, fair-weather fans, and I usually notice when I attend games there that there are usually one or two, or maybe even a group of loud-mouthed, know-it-all fans who yell and scream things, sometimes using vulgar language (for example, I'm Japanese and I was with my sister at a Royals' game back in 1991 when Warren Cromartie was with them, and a group of obnoxious fans who were yelling stupid things all night yelling, "Come on Cromartie, you little Japanese mother f****r!" -- when I was right nearby while Cro was up to pinch-hit in the 9th inning) while the rest of the fans treat it like a night at the movies, where they go and enjoy the game but rarely participate.

That's not to say that there aren't loud-mouthed fans here in Japan either, but it seems Americans like to share their opinions more freely than Japanese people do.

I also believe that the youth in Japan are way less inhibited and more aggressive than the youth of a generation ago. Back in the late '80s when I was going to high school here, you didn't see that many teenagers with long, brown hair, earrings, facial hair, and with their pants hanging halfway down their butt. The teenagers back then were more clean-cut and more obedient towards authority in my opinion. Nowadays you see teenagers sitting down in the middle of a train, sitting on the sidewalk, or just causing problems that you didn't hear about 10 or 15 years ago. That's just my opinion and I could be wrong, but that's how I feel.

I think the fans in the U.S. are, for the most part, fair-weather fans, and I usually notice when I attend games there that there are usually one or two, or maybe even a group of loud-mouthed, know-it-all fans who yell and scream things, sometimes using vulgar language [snip] ... While the rest of the fans treat it like a night at the movies, where they go and enjoy the game but rarely participate.

Wow... Sounds like you've had a couple of bad ballpark experiences in the US, but that's no reason to succumb to stereotyping. Not all fans in the United States are front-runners -- I'm a Cubs fan, trust me on this -- and while there are a few loud-mouths, they aren't as prevalent as you make them out to be. Besides, some of the loudest fans are the most knowledgeable and funny. Sit through a game in the bleachers at Yankee Stadium or Wrigley Field or Pac Bell Park and you'll see what I mean. I suggest you attend a Red Sox-Yankees game at Fenway Park or a Cubs-Cardinals game at Busch Stadium or a Giants-Dodgers game at Chavez Ravine before you characterize all US fans as uninterested "movie-goers."

>There is one thing I'd like some feedback on. In "Wa" >I wrote about how Japanese fans sitting in the >infield seats were more shy, reserved and courteous >compared to their counterparts in US ballparks and >that it was only when they sat in the "oendan" or >cheering sections that they loosened up. Do you, or >anyone else, reading this think it is still true--if >you ever did, that is? Is there a difference in >manners between the non-oendan fan in Japan and the >American spectator in a U.S. stadium? Are North >Americans more participatory? Or are we pretty much >the same?

Americans are more participatory for sure. This is not only in baseball, but also true in Music concert etc. For example, I live in NY and I can never become like some American fan when I go to Yankee Stadium or Shea. Even though I was educated in American School and living in the states for almost 20 years, I can never act like an American.

>Is Japanese youth less inhibited and more agressive >than a generation ago? Or not? Are there regional >variations in both countries? Opinions please.

I was watching the final day of the September Sumo Tourney in Tokyo and saw the whole spectator erupt in San-san-nanabyoushi spontaneously when Takanohana and Musashimaru came up on Dohyo. That never happened when I was there in the early 80s. Although they occasionally threw zabutons when an exciting match took place. It must be a generation thing.

I know that they throw a lot of offspeed stuff in Japan. My question is what is the speed in mph of the average fastball in NPB?

First, about the difference between naiya seki and gaiya seki. If it is like the U.S., the infield box seats are more expensive than the ones in the outfield, so you tend to get more corporate types, perhaps, sitting in the infield seats. In the outfield bleachers (read: the cheap seats) you have more distance between players and fans plus, I believe, much more alcohol consumption. You take those things together along with a rowdy oendan stoking fan fervor then you have your formula for raucousness. It might be salutary to see if you can get a comparison of alcohol consumption between bleacher creatures and those rattling their jewelry behind the plate. That might explain some of it.

I haven't seen any real destructive behavior from Japanese fans in the last few years except for the incident the other night when the game with Orix was stopped for five minutes due to fans throwing things on the field when Cabrera was walked. I know that a couple of decades or so ago, there was such a big riot after a controversial umpiring call at Hiroshima Municipal Stadium that the ballpark had to be shutdown for a couple of days to repair the damage. An entire series was cancelled. There have been other violent incidents over the decades like that, though that one may have been the worst.

As for the velocity of the average heater in Japan, it's probably about 87-88. But then again, you have more and more pitchers throwing hard (Daisuke Matsuzaka and Kazuo Yamaguchi to name two -- btw, Yamaguchi is undergoing arthroscopic shoulder surgery on the 24th). On the low end of that scale, you would have the submariner Shunsuke Watanabe, whose fastball needs some wind behind it to hit 82mph, while Yamaguchi was clocked at 98mph. Even pitchers most would think of as finesse guys such as Shugo Fujii, Koji Uehara, and Kei Igawa will hit 91-92mph occasionally.

Thanks for the info Gary and Dusanh, I appreciate it.

I'd say about 87 mph (140 km/h). If you consistently throw in the low 91-93s (146-149), then you're considered a power pitcher. This is the case for Sasaki and Nomo, while their fastballs are considered above average in MLB, they were real hard throwers in Japan. Once in a while you'll have a handful of guys who have the stuff to be real power pitchers in MLB though. Irabu regularly threw in the mid-90s, topping out at 99 mph. The same can be said about Matsusaka (even though he's not throwing as hard now after the arm trouble), Yamaguchi, and Igarashi. Interestingly enough, none of the three guys above dominated as much as Nomo and Sasaki, so velocity is not equal to success in Japan either.

Back in the 80's there were Seibu's Kaku and Chunichi's Yoda, who had mid-90s stuff. I don't think there has ever been a Billy Koch or a Troy Percival, who can routinely hit the high 90s.

On an interesting note, fans in Japan (and Asia in general), care about velocity stats a lot more than they do in North America, in part because you don't have that many hard throwers in Asia. In fact, the NPB keeps track of official velocity records (currently held by Irabu's 159 km/h, I believe). I'm not sure if such records exists for MLB (but I have seen Koch, Percival, or Nen hit 100 mph more than once on TV). Basically if anybody in Asia hits 160 km/h right now, he'll be very well known.

Interesting that you mention that Igarashi, Yamaguchi, and Matsuzaka are not quite of Nomo and Sasaki caliber....yet. It should be even more interesting to see these young fireballers become the leading pitchers of Japan. Matsuzaka, is one of the most dominant starters in Japan. Igarashi and Yamaguchi, are among the best of the relievers in Japan.

And don't forget "Rocket Boys ichi-go" -- Ishii Hirotoshi who has picked up even more speed on his fastball and hits 155km/h regularly. With a mix of his fastball, sliders, and curves(?) he has managed a more than impressive record of 106 strikeouts in about 88 innings of work, with an ERA of 1.54.

Hi, just wanted to comment on your assessment of Ryota Igarashi as one of the top relievers in Japanese baseball. He's young and strong and throws bloody hard, and I've seen him throw a number of times, but rarely do I see him in control. He rocks and fires and he's all over the place. I think he has great potential in NPB and believe the control will come with time. But right now, I would have to disagree that he's a top reliever.

Nomo threw faster than 91-93 at his prime. When he arrived in the US, he was already past his prime. He was overworked in Japan. I remember he was throwing about 95 during his prime.

I may be wrong, but I think he topped out at 95 and mostly threw 91-93. There aren't many pitchers in Japan who can throw 95 on average. I mean, even when Irabu was at his best, he'd throw 95-98 on a (very) good day, but quite a bit slower than that otherwise.

In fact, this is something I've been trying to figure out about Japanese pitchers. Their good and bad days seem to vary more than their MLB counter parts. Could this be caused by overusage at all levels of their careers? I remember the American press talking about how Nomo "can win without his best stuff" in his first year, when they found him winning throwing mostly sub-90 mph fastballs one game and is up to 93-94 the next game. Now I realize that every pitcher goes through this, but MLB pitchers seem to be more consistent with their velocities.

Another example I recall is Nishiguchi. I'm pretty sure I've seen him throw 146-149 one game and 138-141 another. That's like a 5 mph difference! You just don't see that in MLB very often.

Weighing in on Robert Whiting's question, I attend a number of games at Fenway and Yankee Stadium. And it's really hard to qualify the fans in the infield seats. They tend to carry a whole spectrum of fans. Most are fans that are catching a game are with friends. And naturally they tend to be more subdued. They will cheer when something huge happens, but don't notice the more subtle things on the field. Often, they get most excited only when the wave passes through, or something else is happening in the stands. For instance, infield seat fans in both parks go nuts when a few start chanting 1918 or "Yankees Suck," or a couple of individuals walk around with a banner.

Then there are the young women with Derek Jeter jerseys, and the very small percentage of over-the-top hecklers. And Pedro Martinez fans, who on occasion bring percussion instruments which Fenway security have been known to quiet. In fact, I've seen many instances of overbearing Fenway security guards stamping out fan playfulness.

However, sprinkled throughout those seats are always a number of knowledgeable fans that are paying attention to the minutiae. And they are a mixture of rowdy fans and those quietly taking the game in. So, collectively, I guess you couldn't say the crowds (in these parks) are quiet and subdued. But there's definitely less beer and beachballs than in the bleachers.