Daisuke

I know, I saw that, too! Crazy! If the bid amount is actually less than what they think he's worth to the team, would it be possible they wouldn't let him go? That'd be a really interesting turn of events.

And it doesn't bode well for Kei Igawa, who was supposedly just posted today [Japan Ball]. Hanshin was probably expecting lots of deep pocketbooks in the wake of the Matsuzaka craziness, but perhaps not. Is it worth it to let your ace go for a small fee? I sort of don't think so, but I guess it's up to the team and player to decide how important "pursuing the dream" is.

Anyone thinking collusion? That's the rumor getting around.

I know Matsuzaka is great and has been hyped out of this world, but is $13 million, or even $15 million dollars, a "small fee"? That seems like a lot of money to give up just to get the chance to negotiate a contract with him. Maybe the media and Seibu were being too optimistic in how much they thought he would draw.

A small fee, are you kidding me? Our teams in the States lose a free agent and they get a draft pick, in which they hope in 5 years might be able to contribute to there organization. The way Japan baseball posts players to the U.S. is plain extortion. I wish everyone could do what Nomo did and retire and sign with whomever they feel was a right fit for them as a player.

Are there any rumors about who won the bid?

ESPN is reporting the Red Sox (BOO) have submitted a bid of $38-45 million. For that money, I don't know?

Matsuzaka's would be lucky to end up in Boston. You think he should go to New York? They're just a collection of pill-poppin', over-rated, pretty boy, 40-year old broken down losers.

No way Matsuzaka went for less than $20 million. If he did, someone call the cops because Seibu got robbed.

Sounds like you still are suffering, although they won in 2004. I guess what Giambi did applies to the whole team, including the Boston fave Jeter. Oh well, I expected nothing less! I hope the Sox do get him and JD Drew, then you will have no excuses in October.

Working on #27.

Perhaps the prospect of difficult and costly negotiations with Boras is keeping the bounty down?

Wow, if the reports are true! That's an incredible figure! Ichiro's posting fee was only around $13 million, right?

I've seen everything from $13 Million to $40 million. I don't think anybody has any clue who bid what quite honestly.

Nor will we know how much of the "winning" bid was paid. Of the $10+ millions bid for Ichiro, it is rumored that only a couple million were paid, though the Mariner's ownership was also Japanese.

The offering of $40M by Boston is insane, if true, since the overall cost would be over $20M per year. Just crazy.

Well, if Ichiro's bid was $13 million, Matsuzaka's shouldn't be any more, unless you're saying he's going to be Rookie of the Year and Cy Young winner next season. Because that's pretty much what Ichiro did, except with the MVP. Oh, and he pretty much set all hitting records for the first 6 years or so that he has played that aren't power. I'm just saying that if Ichiro went for $13 million that Matsuzaka shouldn't go for anywhere near $30 million like people said he would. That would just be stupid.

I'm not saying he's bad, because he's not. But he wasn't even the best pitcher in Japan since Saitoh (I think his name is) beat him in most categories.

Maybe it's just a case of newspapers in Japan trying to sell. Let us not forget the Sammy Sosa to Hanshin thread. I don't put it past them at all. I also don't care where he goes as long as it's not the Yankees.

Random question: can Japanese organizations bid on him?

JBiggins-san.
Go Cards!

- Well, if Ichiro's bid was $13 million, Matsuzaka's shouldn't be any more, unless you're saying he's going to be Rookie of the Year and Cy Young winner next season. Because that's pretty much what Ichiro did, except with the MVP. [...]

Nobody knew that Ichiro would be as good as he has been. He was a pioneer, the first Japanese position player in the bigs. If MLB teams knew what his future production was going to be, there likely would've been more teams driving the bid price higher than $13 million. There are other factors to consider with Matsuzaka, too, such as inflation and the fact that he's a pitcher.

The scuttlebutt seems to be that the Red Sox may have bid high for Matsuzaka to make sure that the Yankees didn't get him and then plan to sign him and then trade him out of the AL East to either the Angels or Rangers for a boatload of prospects to recoup the costs.

I don't think so. Boras could get him a no-trade clause. And I think it would sour any future negotiations with NPB players, as well as create larger problems between MLB and NPB.

That is speculation. The stupid amount kicked around cannot be offset by prospects.

It's reported that the Red Sox were the high bidder at $42M for Matsuzaka. It might be more. Insanity!

I posted this on another site on 11/7:

Heck, the Sawx could bid $50 million for the posting rights with no intention of ever signing Matsuzaka just to keep him away from the Yanks. It's doubtful this would ever happen, but it's possible. The resulting PR nightmare for MLB, and to a lesser extent the Sox, would be UGLY.

I'm concerned that it may have happened. Ren Rosenthal from Fox Sports also seems to think it might happen.

Taken from FoxSports:

NAPLES, Fla. -- The Boston Red Sox emerged Tuesday night as winners of the bidding for Daisuke Matsuzaka with a $51.1 million offer and have 30 days to sign the Japanese pitcher to a contract.

Which begs the question: Are you serious?

Seibu announced the winner of the bidding today. Boston has won the rights to talk to Matsuzaka with a ridiculous $51.1 million bid.

I don't know, to me that price waaay too high in my opinion. Let's hope they aren't doing it just for the sake of blocking him from joining the Yankees for one extra year. Otherwise they might get media blasted for having such an action.

As most people already know, the BoSox will have 30 days to negotiate with Matsuzaka on a contract.

- The scuttlebutt seems to be that the Red Sox may have bid high for Matsuzaka to make sure that the Yankees didn't get him and then plan to sign him and then trade him out of the AL East to either the Angels or Rangers for a boatload of prospects to recoup the costs.

Why would we or John Henry care about recouping the costs? The $51.1M does not count against the salary cap, and JH is a multi billionaire who is simply spending his play money to gain access to Matsuzaka. Cost of doing business.

- The $51.1M does not count against the salary cap, and JH is a multi billionaire who is simply spending his play money to gain access to Matsuzaka. Cost of doing business.

Your point is good except for the fact that baseball doesn't have a salary cap, so you don't have a point. Boras wants a 3 year deal with decent money, probably about $16-18 million a year, then he can re-sign with whoever he wants at the age of 29. So if the Red Sox won't give him that, all he has to do is wait one more year and then they can pretty much have a bidding war for a contract, and that puts all the power in Boras and Matsuzaka's hands. So there is no way they will take $3-5 million for a short term deal.

OK guest. Let me adjust my semantics. So we all know that there is a "payroll threshold" of $136.5M and a 40% tax is levied against your team for any amount that you go over that payroll threshold. So, the $51.1M does not count against the "payroll threshold." Geez, who let the lawyers in here?

On your point of just "wait one more year," that will never happen. First, the Sox will not lowball the guy, they'll settle for around $11-$12M per year for 4-5 years - they will pay for value. Secondly, your suggestion would be the last thing that Boras wants since he is what he is - he will soon have a more than reasonable bird in hand, will take the above deal in a heartbeat, run to the bank, and move onto the next deal (vs. risking waiting a year and having his client get hurt). Thirdly, if Boras stonewalled on this issue it would set back the progress that has been made so far between the two leagues, and the leagues won't let that happen. And lastly, the Sox win big here no matter what because of the huge merchandise opportunity selling into a new market.

So let me repeat, there is no way that this deal does not happen despite all of the brouhaha. And you can take that to the bank!

Matsuzaka's rights went to the Red Sox for $51.1 million dollars (US)! (Source: espn.com)

Just wow, this is about four times what Ichiro went for. Boras said he wanted to get a short term deal, and Matsuzaka said he wants to wear Yankee pinstripes. Neither is going to happen now.

The Red Sox will likely offer him a 5 year deal for $10-12 million per year, then a short term deal like 3 years for $3-5 million per year.

Boras is not going to like it, but it's hard to argue that they are negotiating in bad faith when the total package comes out to $20-25 million a year. Also, is Seibu going to want to accept the second bid if it is drastically lower, say $20 million?

Matsuzaka (and Boras) are likely going to have to agree to a long term deal with the Red Sox or Matsuzaka will be back with Seibu.

My guess: Signs with Red Sox for 7 years / $90,000,000.

Short term deal doesn't make much sense for the Sox with the $51M overhead cost divided over just a few years.

Matsuzaka's value on the open market's speculated to be around the $17M/year range of zito.

Then again, I'm not sure how much the idea of FA Matsuzaka signing with the Yanks in '07 (or is it '08?) is worth to the Sox in terms of marginal costs above his speculated open market value. (Not to mention what Boras' cutoff line for sending Matsuzaka back to Seibu to maximize his value as a FA.)

Very interesting situation, but it could very well make the flaws of the posting system very apparent to the public (and maybe prompting a good looking over of the system in the near future).

$51 million clams? Shazam. This is going to set one heck of a precedent. Not to knock Matsuzaka's potential, he has the talent, and most importantly, the age to improve. $50 million seems a bit high, even when you consider the best pitcher in NPB is being stolen.

And what about poor Igawa? Makes me wonder how much longer the posting system is bound to exist.

But what about those initial news sources on Google? Maybe those so called journalists need to find another line of work.

- Makes me wonder how much longer the posting system is bound to exist.

Well Matsuzaka appears to be happy. If he performs, then the Red Sox will be happy. Seibu must also be happy to receive this amount of cash. And as one Bosox fan said yesterday: "If he helps to bring us another pennant I don't care how much he costs" (or words to that effect).

And I'm sure all the NPB teams are licking their lips at the prospect of further Matsuzaka-like payouts. You only need one every few years to make it all worthwhile.

So if everybody's happy, then why wouldn't the posting system keep going?

The posting system is a defective, protectionist mechanism that smacks of indentured servitude. Set a 10 year service requirement, then let all players be free agents. 10 years ought to be enough payback for a team's investment. The $51M bounty has got to eat into Matsuzaka's potential contract.

The BoSox have gone mad, IMHO. And poor Matsuzaka, he will have more pressure on him to perform than the two Matsuis had - combined. Boston fans are as vocal and as demanding as those in New York.

- Makes me wonder how much longer the posting system is bound to exist.

It will exist as long as NPB teams want to guarantee something in return for players and to prevent the Nomo and Soriano situations. It is getting old listening to the criticism of the Matsuzaka situation.

This is the current state of affairs, Boston bid the highest, they won Matsuzaka's rights. It was $51.1 million. There is nothing that is unfair about it, Boston posted the highest bid, anyone else who wanted Matsuzaka could of bid higher, but didn't want him enough. Plus, by making $51.1 million, Seibu can't be doing much complaining. $51.1 million is really going to come in handy for Seibu, unless something really wrong happens.

It's called economics and that's how it works. Who cares? Seibu got $51.1 million for Matsuzaka, Boston got a good pitcher. Nothing this good is going to come cheap.

- Heck, the Sawx could bid $50 million for the posting rights with no intention of ever signing Matsuzaka just to keep him away from the Yanks. It's doubtful this would ever happen, but it's possible. The resulting PR nightmare for MLB, and to a lesser extent the Sox, would be UGLY.

Right, Boston is going to bid $51.1 million for a player they intend to trade when their rotation is in shambles. Maybe you need to take a look on what Boston's pitching staff looks like.

Plus, the $51.1 million isn't counted against their payroll.

If New York bid the same amount, they wouldn't be blasted at all. This is a double standard. Fans would be saying do whatever it takes to get Matsuzaka. Because Boston got him everyone wants to complain? Talk about a double standard, or the case of the "pot calling the kettle black."

Now getting to Boston just bidding to prevent New York from signing him with no intent to sign him. Yeah, that looks good in the Japanese community and would really discourage future business in Japan because of it. It would be looked at as an insult to one of Japan's star players.

I don't think Boston is going to trade Matsuzaka. I think they are going to make a relatively low-ball offer expecting it to be rejected. If Matsuzaka goes back to Japan, Boston doesn't actually have to pay that $51.1 million!

The amount of money the Red Sox invested on him is too much. With that amount of money they could've acquired a whole pitching staff to include Johan Santana and Liriano from the Twins. That was a bad mistake that they made just to keep him away from the Yankees, which he will probably end up with within 3 years. I think their plan is to sign him, and then send him away from the AL East, like to the Angels, Rangers, or even the Mariners.

- And what about poor Igawa?

With pitching coming at a premium this off season, I think Igawa will do well once the bidding war begins. He's got two things that many teams go for: he's a lefty and can eat up innings. Would like to see him in a M's uniform or Padres uniform.

Does no one realize that there is no payroll in MLB? That means it doesn't matter what counts towards a payroll, so the $51.1 million is just out of pocket. It could have gone towards other free agents, which makes me think that they have no intention of signing him, just keeping him away from the Yankees for at least three years. That's just what I think. They could surprise me and sign him though.

- Does no one realize that there is no payroll in MLB?

Ah yes, but there's a luxury tax. That's what people are probably referring to.

Well, Igawa won't be playing in Seattle, as Hiroshi Yamauchi (the former owner and former president of the Nintendo Corporation) has ordered Seattle not to bid on Igawa. [Seattle Times]

I was going to go to so many games next year if the Mariners signed Matsuzaka, Igawa, or Kuroda. Now I'm going to like one or two. Way to go, Mariners. I don't even have Jamie Moyer starts to go to anymore.

Right - I suppose Japanese stars only have a one-year limitation on them before they wear out, so there's no point in going to see Ichiro or Johjima play anymore.

I should have stopped going when Hasegawa retired.

I have love for the NPB guys, and I don't know how much more love I'll have for the Mariners if Ichiro ends up leaving. Anyway, I know what Johjima and Ichiro can do here. I just wanted to see some fresh faces get a chance to turn this team around. I'm sick of seeing this team sign scrubs. Seattle should've bid $70 million for Matsuzaka.

Ok, that last part was in jest.

What, does he have something against Japanese players?

I'm guessing he's either unimpressed or knows exactly how bad the bidding is going to get. I don't care what happens if a bid on Igawa is made. All I know is that if no good moves are made, this team will be even worse next year. That's going to force Ichiro out, and then we'll be the next Kansas City Royals.

I didn't mean to say the posting system will vanish. Nor did I mean that Matsuzaka isn't worth the dough bid on him. What I meant is that the precedent it sets for other NPBers is turning out to be ridiculous. $50 million is a lot moolah. Igawa is a great pitcher, and I hate Hanshin, but what will his going price be? $12 mill? $15? $20?

I don't know how much longer Uehara has with Kyoujin before he's a FA. I know the Giants' stand on Posting, but if they knew they could get $50 million, ...

I don't know. I wish Matsuzaka the best of luck. He's a horse and I'm sure he'll do his best to handle the pressure.

Probably the latter. The process is distasteful and doesn't make a lot of economic sense after sober analysis. He can make the team better with skillful trades and a strong farm system, plus MLB free agents who might only cost a draft pick, not a block of land in Shinjuku.

I can't understand the hype about Boston paying $51 million dollars for the rights to negotiate with Daisuke Matsuzaka. Sure, he is an above average pitcher. However, he is not a future hall of famer.

For example, he won the Sawamura Award in 2001. And yet he only had 15 wins, 15 losses, 214 strikeouts, with a 3.60 ERA. Hardly a great record. I thought that a pitcher needed a winning percentage of 75% in order to be eligible to win the Sawamura.

I said it a few years ago, and I'll say it again. Pitchers that bad do not win awards; they get released. The fact that he won the Sawamura speaks volumes about the quality of Japanese "Major League" baseball. Class-AA at best.

Please ignore the trolling at the end. We all know you can't judge the quality of a league based on the subjective decision for the granting of awards (for which there are often a wide range of differing opinions as to who deserved them). Please don't respond to that.

It seems Seattle may indeed be considering Igawa after all, according to this Seattle Post-Intelligencer article: "Mariners may join Igawa sweepstakes today."