Zuleta charges mound!

i dont thing that there has been any conflict from the two before. i just think Zuleta was feeling annoyed with him and the teams performance and the dead ball triggered his anger. As you probably know the hawks had no hits yesterday and he probably wanted to release his anger.

I doubt he would have been able to knock anybody over in the Major Leagues. Most Japanese players aren't very big compared to the foreigners.

It's not the first time Zuleta's charged the mound. I believe it was 2004 when a Lotte pitcher threw behind Zuleta, and there was a brawl after that. It might have been Serafini that threw the pitch, but I can't remember.

Yeah, it was definitely Dan Serafini that Zuleta charged and tackled to the ground. Serafini stood his ground pretty well though, considering Zuleta is something like 6'5" and looks like he's taking the same vitamins and nutritional supplements that Alex Cabrera is taking (wink, wink).

"Have there been mound fights before in NPB?"

There was one with Chunichi Dragons first baseman Tyrone Woods last year. Woods punched Swallows pitcher Shugo Fujii and was fined 500,000 yen and suspended 10 games. [See also this thread.]

I'm surprised by this, because it seemed like he was trying hard to present such a positive image this year. Those "vitamins" can make a person's personality do a complete 180. Maybe that theory isn't so far off.

I really don't think there's any reason to be ticked off by an NPB brush back pitch, unless it's an elite fireball pitcher throwing it. Kanemura is not one of those guys. Neither is Fujii, when he got sucker punched by Woods last year. Ken Griffey Jr. and Lee Seung Yeop didn't even take a step towards the mound when Soichi Fujita threw at their heads in the WBC. We need more players like that in Japan.

Another stressed batter who wastes his energy on side issues. He should take a look at how other's handle this sort of thing.

An injury could be the end to a baseball career! Zuleta was hit 17 times last year. 3 times this year alone by the SAME TEAM!! This could be frustrating to any player! Have you ever been hit by 90 mph baseball in the gut, limb or eye? Bet not, fireball pitcher has nothing to do with it! Foreign players are not protected in the same manner as native Japanese. Pitchers and teams know this. Zuleta is a great player - just look at his production! The Fighters have an American manager, so maybe their objective is to cool down or stop Zuleta. I agree with Zuleta protecting his body, his career and his livelihood!! Maybe the pitcher needs a lesson on sportsmanship!!! Let's get real people!! What would you do to protect yourself, especially if your employer did not!

I've uploaded footage of this to YouTube, if anyone's interested.

Thanks Bigmanzam, man Matsunaka did a nice job holding Zuleta even though it looks like he got hit by accident.

Zuleta has been banned for 10 games it was announced today.

Most mound-charging in recent years in NPB has seemed to involve foreign players. Any Japanese players infamous for charging the mound or confronting pitchers? Besides Kiyohara maybe...

I think the reason why we see guys get this frustrated in Japan, especially men of color, is perhaps because of how alienated one can feel in Japan. I'm sure being stared at and treated differently can be pretty stressful after a while, especially coming from a smaller place like Panama. I don't know what things are like in the clubhouse or on the field for a man of color over there, but I can imagine you can't even go outside without being gawked at by the majority of people on the street.

This is definitely not an excuse for that behavior, but just a theory I have. One day you're a no name minor leaguer going out with his buddies. The next you become a Japanese superstar who gets stared at all the time, can't go out, and perhaps questions how some teammates really feel about him.

Thanks for the footage BigManZam. Zuleta is way to sensitive. He got brushed around his stomach. He didn’t even get hit. Kanemura didn’t aim towards Zuleta’s head so what’s his problem?

Now I know why NPB only allows four foreigners per team. They are too expensive and they do dump things like charging the mound for no reason. Does anyone have a record of how many Japanese has charged the mound versus foreigner players in the history of NPB?

Thanks for the info.

Did anyone watch the Saturday game between the Hawks and the Fighters (with Yagi's 10 shutout innings)? I didn't see it to the finish, but while I was watching I was thinking that Zuleta might be made a scapegoat for a possible loss... I remember he missed a routine grounder to first for an error that extended a Fighters threat (which eventually came to naught), and then I think in the bottom of the same inning as his error he got on base as part of a Hawks rally... only to be picked off by Yagi while leading too far off of first to end the inning. I remember the cameras focusing in on him lying at first base looking really sheepish as the Fighters left the field...

Being the foreign player, I wonder if he took too large a slice of the blame for that loss and was therefore *really* angry coming into the Sunday game... and then misplaced that aggresion toward Kanemura.

Just a theory, but for anyone who watched that game on Saturday, am I remembering that correctly? There was definitely a real ugly patch for Zuleta there, both at the plate and in the field... I remembered feeling really badly for him, since it seemed like his head was somewhere else during that game, and I can only imagine what went on in the locker room after that game.

- Stevie

All of that still doesn't add up, though. I still say it was a foolish move on Zuleta's part, and as a result, the Hawks will be without the services of a key player for a while.

Hopefully, he'll learn his lesson while he's gone.

Hmmm... not to double post, but looking at the box score for the Saturday game on Borisov-san's site, I can't find anything which matches up with what I was describing in the Fighters game. I might be mixing up my memories of the Softbank/Orix game on the previous Saturday, but I can't get at a box score of that game to confirm... I only just started watching the Hawks Internet stream when I can get the time, so I've only seen those two games so far...

And I agree, there's absolutely no excuse for Zuleta's actions... just more speculation about why a guy who was trying to project a "cleaner" image this year would lose it like that. Perhaps it is just a repeat of what's happened with him in the past... but I was just thinking about possible recent events which could have triggered the blow-up.

Can anyone put together the jigsaw puzzle which is my memory of these two games? *grin*

- Stevie

Julio hasn't lived in Panaman for over 8 years. He lived in Arizona with his wife. Which by the way, he wanted a divorce from after trying 3 times to get pregnant. His ex wife was crushed. I am a close personal friend of his wife and know that money changes people. Infact, there was a special on T.V in Japan for Christmas where it showed zuleta and his family and he and his wife were going thru a divorce then. He is the fakest person i have ever known. He knows how to work people. She was his trainer. She, Jennifer, was in Japan with him every year for support. Looking at the feed of the video he was completely out of line. He is so full of himself that i can garantee that he has absolutly no remorse. That Japanese player didn't even try to fight him.

We all know there are two sides to a divorce story. I personally witnessed the ex-wife on more than one occassion and she didn't appear to be the loving supportive type. Matter of fact, doesn't she have 3 children from a previous relationship that she didn't take care of? There is nothing wrong with a man wanting a child and a happy life. The ex is probably more upset that the big bucks are no longer rolling in, which I'm sure she received a few by merely be married to the man. Sounds like you have a personal vendetta agaisnt the man especially if you are a personal friend of the ex-wife. Zuleta has produced big results for the Hawks! Isn't this forum about baseball??

You obviously didn't pay any attention to his ex. I know she would video him when he couldn't hit to help him and was completely off time and was his soul support though out his career, all 8 years of it. If you did your research you would now the facts. Do you know where he came up with the Panama Unga? Ummmm, his wife. You shouldn't bash until you are certain As far as not taking care of her kids. She is a great mother. That isn't here nor there the subject at hand is the immiture behavior of a superstar.

I think your alienation theory may have some validity, as well as the roid statement. However, the men of color theory is tinged with some stereotypes , to say it gently.I will not buy into that. Alienation has no color. Nor does bad sportsmanship.

I don't know about that. Black people definitely have a more negative image in Japan than white people.

I don't think that the image of black people had anything to do with this incident. This was more to do with stress and frustration than anything else. The fact that Zuleta could not control himself says something about Zuleta as an individual not as a black man.

I know for a fact that he isn't on steriods. But i couldn't imaging if he was. It is really sad when you think you are above the law. I really feel sorry for matsunaka and the pitcher. I thought this was professional baseball. I think he should have to pay for his time off and medical bills and then maybe it would matter. The problem is that these guys think they are so tough and deserve respect when they need to respect the game and where they are playing.

What I'm saying is that the stress level can definitely go higher for a black person in Japan due to a combination of things. It's definitely not an excuse, because I have black friends over there who have done just fine, though not without stress. Just trying to explain to people that being thrown into Japanese culture isn't always the easiest thing.

Anyway, I'm sure Zuleta wasn't a saint to begin with, as the above person attested to.

Japan is probably the highest stressed society anywhere and this is always difficult for outsiders to cope with. I understand what your are saying but this is not a specifically black problem but affects everyone. Some people handle it well some people don't. Perform poorly and the stress levels rocket and I mean really rocket.

Did a little research - this team has hit Zuleta 3 times this year!! Looks like something is brewing!! I say fight back Zuleta!! Look at Zuleta's results. The Hawks have a bargain with this big time player!!!! The Hawk fans love him!

> The Hawk fans love him!


Believe me, we do... but not when he gets himself suspended for 10 games because he couldn't keep his anger in check. That's what it comes down to.

To bring up an example from last year, when Tony Batista was hit by a pitch during a Hawks-Swallows game, he didn't charge the mound. In fact, he hardly batted an eye. He simply ran to first base.

I don't want to blast Zuleta, as he's a big part of our success recently, but he didn't handle this in the best manner. Period.

The man has been hit 3 times already by the same team this year alone- hello wake up!! An major injury could stop his career in baseball. I agree with Zane - fight back Zuleta! Have you been hit by 90 mph ball recently especially in the gut, limb, or eye? Would you want to be blinded by a baseball? I agree you should not let your anger explode, but we are not talking a simple game of cards here folks!! This is the man's career!!

Zuleta has been hit many times and just walked to first base - do your homework! I agree - fight back Zuleta!! Yes we do love Zuleta - Panama Unga Samari

"An injury could be the end to a baseball career!"

Yeah injuries can be the end of a baseball career. Though a hit by pitch is very unlikely to end a career, except your name is Ray Chapman and you're not wearing a helmet. I mean how many hit by pitches have you seen that ended someone's baseball career, there's been none that I know of.

"3 times this year alone by the SAME TEAM!! This could be frustrating to any player! Have you ever been hit by 90 mph baseball in the gut, limb or eye?"

Though is punching and charging a pitcher going to change anything? Zuleta should of took his base and been done with it. How is Zuleta protecting his career by charging the mound, I fail to see how it would help him. Instead, it bring more scrutiny to Zuleta from the media, league, team, and fans as a selfish, unsportsman like player. Saying all that, is it really worth it to charge the mound again?

It just isn't worth it to charge the mound and punch someone, regardless of the circumstances. It won't change anything.

"Maybe the pitcher needs a lesson on sportsmanship!!!"

Yeah, a pitcher who gets punched needs a lesson on sportmanship(sacrasm). Pitching inside is a part of baseball, it's called moving the batter off the plate.

"Now I know why NPB only allows four foreigners per team. They are too expensive and they do dump things like charging the mound for no reason. Does anyone have a record of how many Japanese has charged the mound versus foreigner players in the history of NPB?"

Is this really a fair comment? Yeah, some foreign players do stupid things, but its totally unfair to cateorgize all foreign players this way. Plus, they're our also expensive Japanese players too.

All in all, I'm not trying to protect Zuleta's actions were acceptable because Zuleta should of just took his base and be done with the manner, but the above comment about foreigners is just as unacceptable as Zuleta's actions.

You point out more in a series of racist comments posted in this thread. If you are going to clean the thread Mr. Moderator, do it completely, not selectively. Plus, you many of you are ignorant, calling Zuleta a black man. He is Hispanic. If I spouted out like some of you on Japanese or Asian stereotypes, you would all be in uproar...and those posts would be deleted. calling you out...oh that is another story. What a bunch of hypocrites! And BigManZam, you are afflicted with the disease that you rail about often...racism.

Fo ahead...delete this.

You're OK WB.

I can see fighting back if the pitch is in his upper body or head but if he charges the mound every time he gets hit them what big help will he be to the team then. I am sure if the pitcher really wanted to hit him he would have aimed in a better place then the middle of his side or stomach. Thats why they get paid the big bucks. So when Zuleta comes into second "spikes up" is that great too? Come on. Look at the feed. If you know anything about the game then you would know better then encourage charging the mound on a brush back pitch. Now lets see what help he will be to the team sitting for 10 games.

I have to step in here and defend one of my
favorite players. Zuleta has proved he is a great baseball player by his stats alone. I started following him closely after his production in the playoffs in 2004. He has not charged the mound every time he has been hit. You can count on one hand the times he has charged the mound and on one occassion he was suspended along with the pitcher.
I have personally met and spent time with him and he is very thankful for his position in baseball. He has worked very hard against great odds including racism to be where he is today in baseball. He has helped many less fortunate people in Japan and around the world. He only has good intentions and he is very protective of his career and his family for that matter. Even Oh described him as one of the greatest players. His size alone would scare an average big man, but he is a truly good giant of a man who makes mistakes just like another. He has learned Japanese to understand the people and the culture because he has come to love Japan and his team. He is fluent in several languages and is very intelligent and respectful. I hope this incident will teach us all more about respecting each other.

Looks like steroid rage.

I don't think steroids had anything to do with it - just stress and bad sportsmanship. Those of you who defend his approach just ask what did it accomplish for his team?

I'd like to know why a post on why Zuleta's team mates didn't defend him was deleted by the thought police. Plus, comments smacking of racial stereotypes remain on this thread. Really now....

Why did Zuleta's team mates not stand up for him if he was hit 3 times previously?

Wimps? racism? What?

I understand your frustration. I do know that the history of npb the teammates don't fight they only restrain. It is so different than the states. I have seen before where a player from japan has charged the mound and the pitcher ran out to the outfield, he couldnt be caught. It was alittle funny (In a strange way) . Whatever happend to your pitcher hit my player now one of your players will get hit?

"I'd like to know why a post on why Zuleta's team mates didn't defend him was deleted by the thought police."

Yes, can we have a comment on this moderator?

One cannot defeat racism if one does not speak out and denounce it.

Ed, what's the problem? The post was not deleted by anybody. There's no "thought police".

A couple of my posts were deleted. Ok one said, "catfight" and I won't quibble about that. The others were serious and not flaming. One had to do with why Zuleta's team mates didn't defend him. I reposted the question. The other challenged the stereotypes about blacks and innuendos about foreigners that I found offensive. Usually Westbay-san gives some leeway, but these seemed like the work of someone is supposed to eliminate spam.

I don't want to make a bigger issue of this, but i wanted to make a point. That, I have done. I'd rather see Kaz matsui have a breakout season.

Yes part of this thread was deleted. Michael - if you do have the time can we move away from instantaneous posts back to the old way of doing things. I appreciate it took a lot of time but it was very instrumental in making this such a good discussion board.
With regard to Japanese players backing up hit batters this does not happen much. Normally it is some very respected senior, for example Kanemoto when he was deliberately targeted by Mise last year.

> Michael - if you
> do have the time can we move away from instantaneous
> posts back to the old way of doing things. I
> appreciate it took a lot of time but it was very
> instrumental in making this such a good discussion
> board.

I wholeheartedly agree with this.

I think what everyone has totally looked passed is that this ball wasn't going to effect anyone's career; it did not hit him, but rather brushed his uniform. I blame none of this on racism on any part, but simple roid rage. The man obviously as some issues with suplements as he looks like he should be across from Kotoshu and not at home plate. Cabrera is just as guilty and i hate to watch either of them even play baseball, much less hit a home run. If pitchers want to throw inside, let them! I find it absurd that a pitch can be two feet off the plate on the outside, but a few inches inside will get the pitcher a warning. Pathetic! Where's Bob Gibson when you need him!?

Oh boy this topic has got to steroid speculation(which until proved is complete BS), stupid comments about foreigners, and just all kinds of complete utter idiocy on some comments like the one above, I commented out on.

Also, the steroid speculation here by some people about people like Cabrera and Zuleta are complete and utter BS until someone can prove it.

Also some of the comments about gender are mostly complete BS. Gender didn't cause Zuleta to a charge a mound. Like some have said poor peformance combined with struggling and feeling he has to carry a bigger load this year most likely was the cause. Though is this attitude acceptable? No. Again, what is charging a mound going to achieve? Absoutely nothing, Zuleta should just took his base and been done with it.

Also here's some photos of the incident, so some people can better decide based on some actual pictures:

http://hochi.yomiuri.co.jp/photo/20060416_32275-1.jpg
http://kyusyu.nikkansports.com/baseball/professional/hawks/s-bb-060417-0001-ns.jpg
http://hochi.yomiuri.co.jp/photo/20060417_32432-1.jpg
http://chuspo.chunichi.co.jp/00/baseball/20060417/t-zureta.jpg
http://www.sanspo.com/baseball/top/bt200604/image/06041702kanemura_DGR00413G060416D.jpg

Yet again, there is no excuse for this behavior regardless of what gender, player, or league. This attitude is totally childish. Anyone who tries to protect this behavior, sadly is part of the problem with sports.

> Yet again, there is no excuse for this behavior
> regardless of what gender, player, or league. This
> attitude is totally childish. Anyone who tries to
> protect this behavior, sadly is part of the problem
> with sports.

You know, I used to think that this kind of behavior was totally uncalled for until I started to interact with professional athletes and got their point of view. I think it was best said by LA Clippers head coach Mike Dunleavy after the Ron Artest-going-into-the-stands incident. Dunleavy said, "We all like to think they we would show restraint in that situation, but until you're actually put in that situation you just never know how you'll react."

I think you'd have to have the ball thrown near your head repeatedly to understand where Zuleta's coming from.

Also, I don't want to get into another steroid debate with Mr. Brooks, but let's wake up and smell the coffee. Steroids has always existed in baseball, and judging by the number of minor leaguers still getting busted in the U.S., it still does. You can bury your head in the sand, or face reality. Anyone who thinks that Alex Cabrera is all natural has to be crazy. It's like people who think that Mark McGwire was all natural-there's no way that's possible.

In cricket fast bowlers are allowed to bowl one bouncer per over. For those not familiar with bouncers these are balls aimed at the head height. Sometimes the batsman is hit in the head. There is no charging the bowler - no ejection even though the ball is dangerous. It is part of the game. Cricketers know how to react. To avoid and get on with the game, and if you do get hit, to get on with the game.

You can see this kind of behaviour with most Japanese baseball players. Kanemoto never charges the mound and it is the same for others. These are the examples that Zuleta should follow. His selfish and unsporting behaviour did not help himself or his team. As John says, it is totally childish. And part of the reason for playing sport is to channel your agression in productive and useful ways, not to indulge it. It is also totally unjustifiable - if professional cricketers can avoid it, so can professional baseball players. It's called self control.

Finally, a few comments on steroids. There is no evidence, and in fact in this thread one of Zuleta's detractors who claims to know him stated that he doesn't do steroids. As for the other individuals, where is your proof? Body size is not sufficient proof - please do not introduce these suspicions as if they were facts. They are suspicions and nothing else. With people like Bonds and McGwire there is considerable documented evidence. With Cabrera there is nothing like that, just vague suspicions based on observation of others. We had this debate last year and I for one would like to avoid a repeat of the half formed ideas and groundless gossip that went on there.

- In cricket fast bowlers are allowed to bowl one bouncer per over.

That's not entirely right. This limit exists for one day games, but in test cricket, the limit is generally two per over. Anyway, the real cricket equivalent of a beanball is called a beamer, which is a full toss aimed at the head, and these are illegal. Bouncers are a lot less dangerous and can actually work to the detriment of the bowler. I've seen many poorly placed bouncers dispatched to the boundary by good batsmen.

But you're right about this: cricketers tend to just get on with the game. You take your revenge by hitting the next ball for six.

That's right, in no way is a bouncer anything like being plunked. A bouncer is a short pitched delivery that is first propelled into the ground giving the batsman more reaction time and naturally adds to the variation of the balls flight. A beamer is unexpected and highly dangerous and would be a better comparison, and as mentioned, is illegal.

Give me 1-oku円 and you can pitch at my bonce all day long if you want.

- I mean how many hit by pitches have you seen that ended someone's baseball career, there's been none that I know of.

Dicky Thon and, in a way, Kirby Puckett are examples.

From watching the video, however, it looked like an over-reaction on Zuleta's part. Usually a pitcher who plunks someone on purpose is also prepared to face the consequences and deal with the mound-charging. As noted, Kanemura looked like a deer in the headlights and didn't even fight back.

Puckett's career ended because glaucoma left him blind in one eye, not because of any incident like the Zuleta incident.

Isn't it a waist of time for all us to move into the realm of rumors and specualtion? Why don't we all stick to the facts of this topic?

Zuleta charged the mound for a reason. How many times has Zuleta been hit since he has been in Japan? Last year alone it was more than 50 (still working on the final numbers)! In the 2004 Series he was hit in the hand (which was discovered after the series that it was broken!). This could have been detriemntal to the team's success that year.

Has he charged the mound every time he has been hit? NO. These are facts!

If a pitcher hits a player in Japan, the protocol is to tip the hat. In this particular incident it was not done, review the footage. Is it a coincidence that this particular team hit him 17 times last year and 3 so far this year?

As far as Zuleta's size, yes he is tall and his legs are strong, but in comparision to his height, he is rather slim.

We all may be disturbed to see a man charge another, but if we look at the times Zuleta has been hit, he may have reason to protect himself. The ball hit him in the rib area. A rib can break and puncture a lung. We may not stop and think of all the possible injuries one can sustain from being hit by a baseball. A professional athlete should take his health as a serious issue.

Mistakes do happen, but both parties should take responsibility. I do not agree with fighting on the field. Zuleta has been fined and placed on suspension. He is paying for his actions. What is being done about the number of times he is being hit?

Last year Zuleta placed second in the Triple Crown race, had 43 home runs and a batting average of .319! His positive results have contributed to his team and he is a big factor to their success.

- Last year alone it was more than 50 (still working on the final numbers)!

How in the world could Zuleta be hit 50 times, when he only got hit by pitches 15 times? [Player Profile Page]

- Is it a coincidence that this particular team hit him 17 times last year and 3 so far this year?

Again, how could Zuleta be hit 17 times last year, when he was only 15 times?

- A rib can break and puncture a lung.

Aren't we a little irrational? A simple hit by pitch isn't going to break a rib and puncture a lung.

- A rib can break and puncture a lung.

Aren't we a little irrational? A simple hit by pitch isn't going to break a rib and puncture a lung.

A little pitch? Are we playing softball here or baseball? Come on - are you serious?

- A little pitch? Are we playing softball here or baseball? Come on - are you serious?

One, I never said "a little pitch," so if you're quoting, then quote the actual context. What I said is a simple hit by pitch won't end a player's career. It's the plain facts, the pitch that hit Zuleta wasn't going to end his career. You're thinking in an extreme radical sense. Please, try and tell me a simple hit by pitch will end someone's career? I've seen enough baseball in these years, and please, you're seriously trying to tell me a simple hit by pitch like the one that hit him will end a career, oh boy?

I am not sure I understand you fully. Are you arguing that Zuleta was to some extent justified in his action? If so I am afraid I must differ - it doesn't matter how many times he has been hit, he has no right to charge the mound at all. It is against the principles of sportsmanship and the game. The correct approach to adopt is these things happen and get on with the game.

Agreed that it can be dangerous, but then all sport involves an element of physical risk. Zuleta voluntarily agreed to take part in baseball - he wasn't forced. He also agreed to voluntarily respect the rules of the sport (which do not include charging the mound). Whether the pitcher tips his hat or not is irrelevant - Zuleta should have stayed were he was and taken the walk. That is the correct way to deal with these incidents because when you retaliate you put yourself in the wrong.

- Steroids has always existed in baseball, and judging by the number of minor leaguers still getting busted in the U.S., it still does.

I don't want to get into another long-winded discussion on this, but until you can have some actual proof it's totally inappopriate to speculate that Zuleta or so and so is on steroids.

Yes, steroids exist, but until you can have some actual proof, again it's just totally inappopriate to try and speculate.

Mr. Brooks, I'm afraid you're wrong. As a previous poster said, Kirby Puckett's career did end because of a beaning. I believe it was a Jack Morris fastball that nailed Puckett in the eye and effectively ended his career. The glaucoma was caused by the beaning. Dickie Thon did come back briefly after his beaning, but was never the same. Tony Congiliaro (sp?) of the Red Sox also had his career ended by a beaning to the face.

Beanings are dangerous and that's why players feel that they have to charge the mound to prevent them from recurring. Ask John Sipin - he was the second baseman who signed with the Yomiuri Giants in the late '70s after playing with the Taiyo Whales. After signing with the Giants, he was repeatedly getting hit by pitches until he charged the mound a few times. Current Phillies' manager Charlie Manuel had his jaw broken by a pitch to the face when he was with the Kintetsu Buffaloes (also in the late '70s), putting him out of commission for half the season.

It's hard to blame players for charging the mound when you see all those examples of players getting seriously hurt by getting hit by pitches.

Again, Kenny I'm afraid your wrong. Puckett was hit in the jaw by a Dennis Martinez fastball in 1995. Far from being hit in the eye. Second, Puckett retired in spring training in 1996, because he woke up one day not being able to see out of one eye.

- Beanings are dangerous and that's why players feel that they have to charge the mound to prevent them from recurring.

I've heard this over and over again, though ask this question, does it change anything? No, and second most beanings aren't dangerous.

Second, rambling on about how this type of attitude is justified is part of the problem with sports - that this type of attitude is acceptable.

- I think you'd have to have the ball thrown near your head repeatedly to understand where Zuleta's coming from.

Though still, what is charging a mound going to again? Absoutely nothing. Just take your base and be done with it. Pitchers throw inside, it's a part of the game.

I have no clue what league of unsportsman like conduct you live in. There is no excuse to try and protect this behavior or condone it. This attitude is childish and totally uncalled for, regardless of what proffessional athletes believe or say. Like I said, this type of attitude is part of the problem.

As with the Artest situation, what was it going to solve by going into the stands? Nothing, it wouldn't change the fact someone threw a drink at him. These types of athletes need to be grown ups instead of a bunch of little children fussing and fighting.

Finally, on steroids, you seem to be on some kind of McCarthy witch hunt. Until you can actually prove the issue with facts and not pure speculation, it's totally inappopriate.

Please read this [Yahoo! MLB News - warning: audio on load] and tell me I'm wrong John.

I wish you could spend some time around pro athletes so you can understand their mentality and their competitiveness. I'm not trying to condone charging the mound or going into the stands, but I think it's easy to sit back and say that you wouldn't do something like that when you've never been put into that situation. When your livelihood is on the line and someone throws near your head and could put your career in jeopardy, then it might be hard to just take your base and act like everything's OK.

Also, please read "Juiced" and "Game of Shawdows" if you have time. I think they'll give you a different perspective on the whole steroids isssue.

Kenny - a true sportsman controls his aggression. Whilst it may be the case that some things are difficult to take, this is what the sportsman does. Maybe you haven't played cricket, but as I have stated before, professional cricketers get on with the game. They take as many risks as professional baseball players but do not feel the need to be violent.

Now you also mention the point about losing your career. This is actually a spurious justification of an inability to control yourself. Think about how many baseball players pick up career ending injuries fielding. I believe (and correct me if I'm wrong) this was what ended Valentine's career as a baseball player.

Baseball players choose to wear helmets without faceguards. This is their decision but it also means that some will get hit. Remember they are being paid very well to take these risks and no one is forcing them to play. Baseball, like most sports, involves an element of risk. When you step onto the field you accept the risks. If you wear a helmet without faceguards, you also accept a risk. It doesn't give you a right to act beyond the rules of the games. Charging the mound shows that you have not reached the level of a sportsman, but are still at a sub-level. If someone cannot play a sport without introducing a level of violence that goes beyond the rules of the sport they have chosen, they seriously need to ask themselves whether they should be playing it at all.

Christopher and John Brooks, it is a given that mistakes happen, but do you think on occassion pitchers throw baseballs to hit players intentionally?

If so, should the pitcher be reprimanded in a way or is that just a privilege or judgement on the pitcher's behalf?

- but do you think on occassion pitchers throw baseballs to hit players intentionally?

Can you actually prove that he was hit intentionally? Pitching inside is part of the game, pure and simple, every baseball team on the planet does it.

- If so, should the pitcher be reprimanded in a way or is that just a privilege or judgement on the pitcher's behalf?

If it is shown that the pitcher is intentionally trying to hit a batter beyond a reasonable doubt, then there should be some kind of penalty, but in this case it wasn't. Though it still remains a pure fact, pitching inside and moving the batter off the plate is part of the game, it doesn't change if you believe that Zuleta was hit intentionally or not. It's still is, and pitchers are going to throw inside.

- Again, Kenny I'm afraid your wrong. Puckett was hit in the jaw by a Dennis Martinez fastball in 1995. Far from being hit in the eye. Second, Puckett retired in spring training in 1996, because he woke up one day not being able to see out of one eye.

Yes, it was definitely Martinez. Whether it played a part in his retirement is still speculation. Although suffering a broken jaw, Puckett was hit just above the eye, resulting in profuse bleeding. When announcing his retirement, Puckett acknowledged Martinez and called the whole incident an "accident," which shows a lot more about his sportsmanship than Zuleta.

A new article on Tyrone Wood's beaning last year to add to this: Link [Asahi-Herald - in English]

Why are you excusing the pitcher's behavior? Sportsmanship goes both ways. You continually talk about attitude, but it seems you are close minded on the reason the mound was charged! If you think all batters hit by a ball are all mistakes, your knowledge of the game is weak.

You need to look at official records to get the true facts on the number of times Zuleta was hit last year. I believe you were referencing unofficial reports.

As far as Kirby Puckett is concerned, he did have glaucoma, but the hit contributed to the blindness! That constitutes for a very serious hit!

All athletes risk injury, but it is hard to judge if a ball thrown at a batter is intentional or not. So do we give pitchers free range to make the judgement call? Both parties need to be accountable. Charging the mound will not stop batters from being hit, but it does send a message that they are not just going to be repeatedly hit and keep taking it. Apparently just taking the base is not worth the hit, especially if they believe it was an intentional hit. The penalties of fines and suspensions can be costly to the player's wallet and the team's overall success. In this case, it was a key player.

A childish attitude of one that only sees and defends one side of an issue. I wonder if you and Christopher would take a few hits by the baseball to your head, face, and body and then come back and report your findings? With compensation of course!

Professional baseball pitchers are trained to throw the ball over the plate not at batters bodies. If they do make a mistake and hit a player they need to acknowlege it in some fashion like tipping the hat to apologize. Respect and mature behavior goes on each side of this issue which in turn may solve the issue.

- You need to look at official records to get the true facts on the number of times Zuleta was hit last year. I believe you were referencing unofficial reports.

I rechecked the data for Zuleta in the "2006 Baseball Record Book" (official records). The data is correct. Futhermore, Johjima was hit 16 times last year, one more time than Zuleta.

And look how Johjima-san took it. He left the country!

Only a little levity, guys.

Thank you! I am fairly new to this site, but it is very interesting!

Charles, what you are advocating is retaliation. Nowhere in the rules of baseball is this permitted. It doesn't matter whether the ball is deliberate or accidental, whether the pitcher tips his hat or not, retaliation is not permitted. Thus a batter is never justified in charging the mound - witness that if he does, he is punished. That is how it should be. It is for the umpires to judge whether the pitcher should be sanctioned, and after that the baseball authorities.

Now if you are saying the sanctions for pitchers who hit batters should be more severe, I can agree with you.

What can never be accepted is batters deciding for themselves what is acceptable. If you take the Woods incident last year - he over-reacted to a pitch which was not at all dangerous and easily avoided. Recently he tried to justify this in a nauseating interview in the Asahi Shimbun. This showed how far he had to go before he became a genuine sportsman.

I keep on having to make this point - sport is about channelling aggression in constructive ways to bring about a positive result for you and your team. It is also about self control and staying within the rules. There is a further aspect - accepting what happens and getting on with the game.

Turning to Zuleta, he accomplished nothing for himself or his team by charging the mound. There is no guarantee that he will not get hit again. By retaliating he removed all sympathy for himself and transferred it to the pitcher. He violated the spirit and rules of the game and acted like a child in a playground. The pitcher wasn't punished, he was. When you retaliate this is what happens.

There is also a more fundemental principle involved here - two wrongs do not make a right.

If you are advocating stricter supervision and punishment of pitchers, I can agree with you. But what can never be accepted is advocating and justifying retaliation as this goes against everything that sport is.

Christopher, well said! Now you are getting the point indeed. Just for the record, I do not advocate retaliation. I am saying sanctions for pitchers who hit batters should be more severe!

- Why are you excusing the pitcher's behavior? Sportsmanship goes both ways. You continually talk about attitude, but it seems you are close minded on the reason the mound was charged! If you think all batters hit by a ball are all mistakes, your knowledge of the game is weak

Have you even seen the video of Zuleta being hit? Zuleta wasn't even hit that hard to start out with, and wasn't even hit somewhere where it would come close to ending his career.

Yeah, sportsmanship goes both ways, but Zuleta was the one who charged the mound, pretty childish over a hit by pitch that wasn't in a dangerous location or that wasn't that fast to start out with.

Third, don't sit here and try to preach out about knowledge of the game, because you look childish with your consistent attitude that charging a mound is okay. As for the end of your comment, it's quite pathetic you are attempting to attack someone's knowledge of baseball. Don't attempt to preach that idea either, I've been around more baseball than a lot of people, as I assist with my college baseball team, and boy do I see a lot of baseball there, and the true risks of what baseball can do. So quit your childish preaching on that, I'm not interested in hearing your rambling on that subject.

- You need to look at official records to get the true facts on the number of times Zuleta was hit last year. I believe you were referencing unofficial reports.

Yeah, read the stats provided in this thread, I was referencing actual stats, I have no clue what you're referencing.

- So do we give pitchers free range to make the judgement call? Both parties need to be accountable.

No, it's not up to either the pitcher or batter to make that judgement call. It's up to the umpires and league officials to make that call. That's what their job is, not the players. Though, both parties need to be accountable and responsible for their actions, which right now Zuleta is paying the price for his actions.

- Charging the mound will not stop batters from being hit, but it does send a message that they are not just going to be repeatedly hit and keep taking it.

Does this still change anything? No, all it does is cause more of a problem, as we're seeing right now with Zuleta.

- The penalties of fines and suspensions can be costly to the player's wallet and the team's overall success. In this case, it was a key player.

Yeah, fines are costly to a professional sports player. Fines in professional sports are pure pathetic and petty compared to an average person. They're hardly going to break a professional sports star's pocket, unless they're playing on the farm, then maybe it will.

Suspensions are costly to teams sometime, but it also sends the message, plain and clear, that this type of attitude is unacceptable and will not be tolerated by any player, regardless of their stature.

The impression I get from a lot of the posts in this thread is that of a lot of guys have never played baseball. I'm not going to act like I ever was anything but a benchwarmer after Little League, but the whining that I've read so far here is downright sad. Getting your undies in a bunch over a SoftBank game in April? What gives?

Charging the mound is never an intelligent thing in terms of sportsmanship, image, and ultimately, its effect on the team - due to the length of the suspension given. However, it happens and I think Zuleta is getting a raw deal in this thread. Everyone makes mistakes, in life and on the field, and overreacting/charging the mound is not foreign to ballgames. But in Pro-Yakyu blah blah blah - please, fellas. I know that the gaijin players have to adapt to the changes in the game, but I really don't comprehend seventy plus posts about a dude taking umbrage at a beanball. Let it ride. Zuleta should have but he didn't. Maybe the opposition will hesitate throwing inside during the playoffs and Big Z will launch one over the fences.

Steroids or no steriods. Cast blame when he tests positive, 'til then please to shift your blather to something else.

Koroshiya Jo - I think you misunderstand why there are so many posts on this topic. It is about more fundemantal aspects of sporting culture. Zuleta is just the latest example of an attitude problem and misunderstanding of the nature of sport exhibited by a lot of people. Certain people defended Zuleta's right to over-react, others (including myself) corrected them. The belief that over-reacting is justifiable in some circumstances should never go unchallenged.

Whilst Zuleta and others may never read this thread it is possible they might, and one thing, he is not getting is a raw deal. He is being rightfully condemned by most correspondents. The view that over-reaction is permissible or even acceptable should never be allowed to prosper because people are silent.

Now as to your comment on your impressions - how do you know? You do not know any of the correspondents or their histories. How do you know which sports they have played or to what level? Do you really know anything about their level of their knowledge?

John, I am not preaching, only trying to point out the different views on this subject. You do not have to read or reply to my comments. From your first post on this subject, you do not think batters receive dangerous hits, or that any hit constitutes a charging of the mound and that Zuleta's behavior was totally unacceptable. Also, that charging the mound is not going to change the problem. This is what you believe - and this is okay. Your experience from assisting on a college team and seeing a lot of baseball does not make you an expert.

My point is that batters do get hit by intentional hits and something should be done. I believe sanctions for pitchers who hit batters should be more severe. In this particular case, Zuleta was hit. Not a major hit, but I have reviewed the footage and know his rib area was bruised.

I do not claim to be an expert but have been involved in professional baseball for decades.

- From your first post on this subject, you do not think batters receive dangerous hits, or that any hit constitutes a charging of the mound and that Zuleta's behavior was totally unacceptable. Also, that charging the mound is not going to change the problem.

I never said there wasn't dangerous hits in baseball, so first off don't put words in my mouth. Though, that still doesn't change the fact that charging the mound is wrong in any form or reason.

- Your experience from assisting on a college team and seeing a lot of baseball does not make you an expert.

Now let's watch out here, I never said I was an expert from seeing a lot of baseball. What I said is that I'm completely aware that there are dangerous situations in baseball.

- I believe sanctions for pitchers who hit batters should be more severe.

The problem remains, can you prove that Zuleta was hit purposely? You can't prove it at all. Yes there should be penatlies for hitting a batter if that is their attempt to do so. In this case, however, it was far from being an intentional hit by pitch.

- Not a major hit, but I have reviewed the footage and know his rib area was bruised.

Regardless, it doesn't constitute charging the mound, there is no excuse at all to charge the mound in any situation.

Closing this out, there is no exact proof to prove that Zuleta was hit intentionally. Second off, are your trying to condone this behavior that charging the mound is acceptable? This is what it seems. Third off, you can believe what you want to, it doesn't change the fact that Zuleta's behavior was completely unacceptable. It is unacceptable to charge the mound in any situation. The league and the team all have a responsibilty to maintain order and punish the players who do charge the mound. Or all we will see is nothing but pure chaos.

To close out, your opinion seems to say that charging the mound is an acceptable form of composure in baseball. I'm sorry, no league on the planet finds charging the mound acceptable, believe what you want to. This attitude is childish and unacceptable, in any form or reason to charge a mound.

You are being all inclusive, not every one agrees with you. Do you represent every league on the planet? Many MLB players charge the mound in certain situations.

It is apparent that certain points of view are going to remain adamant on pitches hitting batters, no matter the history of that batter, pitcher, or team.

For those of us who do yield to other points of view, please take a look at the following:

In the last few weeks, the same team, Nippon Ham Fighters, have hit 3 separate batters on different teams. Let's start with the Seibu Lions/Fighter game where A. CABRERA was hit by EJIRI, a week or so later, KANEMURA hit ZULETA (which Zulta was hit 3 out of 5 games by this team that he played). A few days later, DARVISH hit KIYOHARA and either his finger or wrist was broken and could be out several weeks or months.

Is this a mere coincedence? Or just a random occurrence that is part of a normal game?

There is no way to determine if a pitch is intentional or not. If it is intentional, there are no repercussions in place for the pitcher.

My only significance on this issue was to look at the batter's point of view (not just one hit - all of them).

If a batter is continually hit and nothing is done about it - a problem exists. The pitcher should be held accountable in some form. Again, I do not beleive charging the mound is the solution! I believe a few simple rules for the pitcher would alleviate the problem.

Ok, I stayed away from this thread for a few days, because I didn't want to reply anymore and add to the BS. I agree with Michael and the others in that modding probably needs to come back.

As for allegations of racism. What the h*** is that all about? What's your agenda? All I stated was that it's hard for black men to walk around Japan without being gawked at. This isn't racism, but merely the difference in being another skin tone in a land full of one type of person. Stop reading so much into it.

As for me being racist, my friends are African-American, Greek, Iranian, Chinese, Korean, Japanese, and Caucasian. I guess I'm still a hateful racist, though. After all, I acknowledge that it's difficult for black men to walk around Japan without getting noticed. I must be a regular KKK member.

This is my last post on this thread, because I think it's absolutely ridiculous and has become way too big. It makes this respectable site look like a New York Mets message board. I just felt like I needed to get one last word in before I let some confused individual call me a "racist" about a thousand times.

- All I stated was that it's hard for black men to walk around Japan without being gawked at. This isn't racism, but merely the difference in being another skin tone in a land full of one type of person. Stop reading so much into it.

I'm sure that's what they said in the white part of town in Selma or Montgomery in the 1950s and early '60s.

Zuleta is not a black man either.

Here is why Julio Zuleta should never have gone out to the mound:

1. The pitch that hit him was 83 mph. Unless you get hit in the elbow or square in the eye, it isn't going to do any damage. Heck, I've had batted balls drilled off my body while pitching in youth leagues that were harder than that. You just shake it off and go on about your business. I had a fastball smoked off my right thigh once while playing Senior League ball and it carromed into short left field. The seams left an impression on the thigh, but I just got the ball and went back on the hill. Didn't bother me (well, except for making a cr*p pitch).


2. It was a 2-2 pitch and there were already runners on. If you are going to drill somebody, you do it on pitch one and with the bases empty or with a huge lead, not when you have a chance to put him away or of making a jam worse. Why waste the time and add to your headaches?


3. He and Matsunaka are the only true deep threats in that lineup now (unless Matsuda comes around). So going out to the hill has a chance to really sink a team that is having production problems to begin with due to the inevitable suspension. Plus it will interrupt your feel for live pitching at the plate and a slow new start after the suspension does further damage to the team.


4. The book on Zuleta is to jam him because you don't want a guy like that to get extended, especially in the smaller Japanese ballparks. That inevitably means he is going to get hit. He has to accept that or start turning more inside heaters around so that they won't come in there. Julio is feeling the pressure of the need for added production after Johjima's departure and his swing has gotten long as a result. I've seen him get jammed on pitches up and out over the plate because he is just too long to the ball right now. All the more reason to stay in on him.


5. I don't think Julio did this because he is a bad guy. As one of the Hawks' announcers said, he was feeling a lot of responsibility for the team's slow start out of the gate. And the announcer said that days before this incident happened. So I think he just snapped.

What Julio did was selfish and embarrassing to his Japanese team mates. Oh said that his team is 100% at fault for what happened. The only thing I would say to Oh, though, is that Japanese teams aren't very good about protecting their own players when something happens. That's on him. If Zuleta knew that the Hawks' starter was going to drill Ogasawara or Seguignol or Takahashi then this may not have happened. So I blame Oh partially for this.

By the way, for those who cite Julio getting hit by Nippon Ham this year, look at Kanemura's HBP the last couple of years. Did he hit any more than five total over that time? Not exactly your classic headhunter.

On Kiyohara, I'm not sure what's going on there. He was diagnosed with a bone bruise but then they said he was going to be gone for up to a month and then there was an announcement that Kiyohara is goig to start Tuesday. So somebody isn't telling the truth. Kiyohara is now saying that next time somebody hits him he is going out to the mound to state his case to the pitcher directly. I'll believe it when I see it, though.